sigh.

[taiki]

So I've been keeping up with the Penny Arcade Dickwolf debacle(See here Major Warning: Discusses rape).

Phil Plait once gave a talk on the tone argument in a skepticism context. You can find it here. He talks about Skepticism and how to turn people to the light. He brings up several basic questions. First off, what are you trying to

Comments

Edited Comment

[fengi]

In the Penny Arcade situation, if they honestly felt did nothing wrong, or that the issue was being addressed in the wrong way, they could have deflected or ignored it in a less obvious way, instead they aggressively doubled down in their flagship product and pretty much invited a flamewar. The initial tone may have been extreme, but PA was a willing participant in the escalation.

It did however make me think of a situation in which the targets were far less offensive than the Penny Arcade guys.

I've redacted the details because I don't want to stir the pot any more, but a bunch of authors addressed a specific situation of a rude fan and got slapped down over tangental contexts. Except the targeted authors are clearly not zealots on the issue and were berated into backdown from a context and position they didn't take.

Re: Edited Comment

[taiki]

I don't think the PA guys were ready for this kind of flamewar. IIRC, usually the most angry emails they'll get are when they post a comic like, "Xbox controllers are huge."

OTOH, this isn't new hat for the otherside. This isn't the first time people went nuclear over a difference of opinion. When Keith Olbermann pissed off people over the Michael Moore/Julian Assange thing, I went to go watch the episode to get some context, and what made me sad was that over this single issue, the story about the Arizona organ donation situation went unheard.

Maybe it's my age, i'm only 28, but, lately I've had my cynicism chipped away and I can't afford it anymore. I can't afford to be angry at everything and I can't afford to not let go. I don't even know anymore.

[dreaming_faerie]

Here's an idea - don't try to bring up the whole 'tone argument' bullshit as a way to dismiss and derail what's being said and done

[taiki]

Yes, and my question is, what has this accomplished?

[dreaming_faerie]

Educated people? Made people look at their view at humor and rape culture? Made PAX lose money by refunds and made PA lose readers by being assholes? Showed how the 'true fans' of PA are just a bunch of neckbeards?

Really, it's not that hard to see what it's accomplished so far.

[taiki]

By what metric? How much money has PA actually lost? Who's now on board with the whole rape culture paradigm that wasn't prior to this? This is a lot of navel gazing and I'm willing to bet PAX East and PAX Prime will still do very well. It is actually very difficult to see what gains, if any, have been made

[taiki]

I don't even know what to think anymore. Christ. I can't mock them. How the fuck do you mock rape survivors? I can't be pissed off at Penny Arcade, they're in the business of producing JPEGs that appeal to a largely desensitized audience.

[thebatcopter]

This. So hard.

[pagenfox]

Wow...I'm now glad I never got into Penny Arcade, I found their comic boring. What pricks.

[thebatcopter]

Where is this flamewar? I'm trying really hard to be interested in feedback about a webcomic that was posted in August of 2010, only now somewhat receiving spotlight, but I don't see the outrage. I also don't see why people are so confused; the PA guys are trolls, and any publicity is good publicity. If you visit their site to look at the omfg shameful webcomic, they make money off of you.

This entry reeks of pretentiousness, tbh. It's two dudes being dicks on the Internet to people who keep coming back for more, not a philosophical debate about "tone argument" and skepticism with a capital S. I don't see how this particular webcomic should be shocking, giving half the shit that's come before this from them.

Also, the funniest thing to circulate about PA is their Encyclopedia Dramatica article.