Gaudy Night, chapters 15-16

[ibmiller]

Gaudy Night Chapters 15-16

Brief Synopsis: In which there is much Gazing, capital letter most definitely indicated. Also, a Villain Sighting. A punt is involved in one of these things.

Comments

[penguineggs]

Vera incessu patuit dean

"Dea" not "dean" in the original: "and by her footstep knew her as a goddess".

I can see the thing about "Twixt Wind and Water" because I've had people do it (perceptively) to things I;ve written; Harriet is writing with mental reservations, with the brakes on. She needs to write with them off, irrespective of what genre she writes in, because otherwise the reader senses the internal reservation.

[ladyjestyr]

Yeah, I've always got the feeling that Harriet is in major denial throughout a lot of Gaudy Night - in a way that she isn't in SP, where she's under fire, or in HHC, where she's just taking stock/treading water. And that means she can't write anything meaty or satisfying because she's not brave enough to be honest about peoples' motivations, because she's trying to avoid thinking about this stuff as it applies to herself.

Whenever one asks somebody a hypothetical question, one almost always thinks of what one's own answer would be; if you're putting problems in front of other people to solve it's hard not to think about how they apply to you.

[lopezuna_writes]

Yes, why does Peter go all huffy and private on the way back? What function does this serve in the plot? The girl you have been running after unsuccessfully for 5 years shows an interest in you for the first time, so you push her away? Does he think that a little playing hard to get is the best strategy here? How does this fit in with "I've been running away from myself for twenty years, and it doesn't work," not to mention all of the honesty stuff?

[nineveh_uk]

Because he's not used to being the one who answers the questions? Peter knows pretty much everything about Harriet's life in all its aspects, and has done since before he met her. Harriet, in contrast, knows very little about him. Partly it's because he hasn't pushed it on her, but its also the mask and reluctance to let people get close to him. So he lets his guard down when he's tired, but once he's had a rest it's back up again. He hasn't faced - and won't for another back - the quid pro quo that if he wants to be close to Harriet, he has to let her get close to him.

[lopezuna_writes]

I'm still confused about what we're supposed to think about the honesty trope. It came up before (the Row in Have His Carcase), so it's not like it's something that is just relevant to the Poison Pen mystery. He wants honesty, but here we see that when push comes to shove, he's not prepared to give it. So then the function of this scene is to let us see him make progress of sorts over the next few chapters?

[colonial_abroad]

Great summary- and lovely chapters!

I've always thought that what Harriet is forced to acknowledge is physical attraction; but I'm not so sure it's all that simple. I think Harriet is running scared from her own sexuality througout all the books- and never really even thinks of Peter's. I've always wondered if Peter is so masculine in this book (rightly or wrongly) because Harriet has to come to see him as a man, as well as just a companion.

I'll have to think more about the other questions!

[nineveh_uk]

I think Harriet is running scared from her own sexuality througout all the books- and never really even thinks of Peter's.(1) Definitely - though having it crushed out of her by Philip Boyes didn't help, she also doesn't want to put herself back into the position of crushee. She does say, after all, in SP that she was "bewitched" by him, it wasn't all his nagging that got her to live with him

[antisoppist]

the first directish reference since "I make love rather nicely" to the fact he actually wants to go to bed with her.
And with "I don't even want love - I could make you give me that - of a sort", he actively dismisses it, while still being supremely confident about his amazing powers of sex. Is it, as Miss De Vine points out, that he knows he could win that way so he's not going to gain an unfair advantage by using it?

[nineveh_uk]

It's certainly smug, though I think the situation changes between HHC and GN, so I'm not sure that Miss De Vine's point works in quite the same way in each.

But for someone saying "I just want common honesty" he's being rather elliptical.

[azdak]

There's also Peter's question when Harriet guesses that he likes Donne, "Was that a bow drawn at a venture?" It's a biblical reference and the full quote is "And a certain man drew a bow at a venture, and smote the king of Israel", so it's another hat tip - if it isn't obvious enough from the rest of Peter's reaction - to Harriet's knowing him alarmingly well.

[ibmiller]

Ah! I totally missed that one - thank you!

Is Peter's love of Donne (which I think makes its first appearance here) related to his long pursuit of Harriet? It seems that way as it's related here.

[nineveh_uk]

Re. apricot flan, you know British flan is different from American ;-) I think it must have been horrifically sweet at a riverside cafe in the 30s, hence the subsequent enthusiasm for bread and cheese and beer in the pub instead of a rural teashop.

Which Harriet and Peter, being good detective novel readers, know must be plants
I think this incident is a good one of where Harriet, knotted up over "why" (sex) fails to see how/who. She knows that there is an element of fakery to at least some of the scene, but she wants to puzzle out exactly what happened and who on earth could have done it, whereas Peter goes straight to the question of who it benefits most, with the obvious answer "the person it gave an alibi".

[ibmiller]

Ah, yes. When I first read GN, at 14, I was so wrapped up in Harriet's POV that I, too, completely missed the alibi. Nicely pointed out!

Also, bread and cheese is awesome, even without the added incentive of flans and fake lemonade.