Theories on Fire & Hemlock
From re-reading certain events in the novel, things have become a bit more clear. A lot of analysis (found online!) concerning the ending helped imensely, because I was still very uncertain about what was happening.
, Back to Sports Day, we learn about Granny's influence on Tom. That explains why the next time she sees Tom, he's awfully distant towards her. And of course, bringing Mary and Leslie too (former for himself, and the latter to distract her). ** Lost train of thought, was going to talk more about Tom/Polly's relationship but somehow swiveled to Seb/Polly. **
, I'm still not completely certain why Seb kept Polly around. Theorists suggest it's to keep Polly away from Tom, so that Leroy stands a chance of living (Tom's death = Leroy's life). But I think deep down, Seb truly liked her. Polly is described to be quite pretty, with beautiful hair. So in some ways, his actions are always swing with an underlining support for his father's life (or his own life, since he believed it has always been between Tom's life, or his own life, as a sacrifice), or his love for Polly. Yet at the same time, he never loses his cool. That would make the reader think Seb knew what he was doing, but at the end, Polly suggests that Seb had always been thinking of his life, and his life only. But since Polly never really loved Seb, I don't think she understood him completely.
, When they head towards the Middleton Fairgrounds, Seb interfers, because he knows Leroy's intention to kill Polly. He refuses to enter as well, yet he makes no further attempts to stop her from entering. I'd like to think that this supports my thought on Seb's actions. Seb's father doesn't know that Polly is being told to leave with him (Seb), but since Seb must love his father just the same (or if you will think of it this way, his own life), he lets Polly go on ahead. Then Tom becomes hurt in the process, nullifying the pact he had with Laurel. Laurel, being Laurel (as pointed out from site below), only understands and treasures rules and laws. Therefore, that explains what happened with the whirlpool near the end of the book. Tom was given a chance to fight for his life.
*****
I'm grabbing this theory from someone else, because I thought it explained a lot of the ending very well.
Not sure where "very end" exactly starts, so I'll start at Hunsdon House.
Polly claims that Mr. Leroy has forfeited his right to Tom's life by
hurting Tom when trying to kill Polly. Laurel agrees, and allows both Tom
and Mr. Leroy "a chance", to decide which one of them will be sacrificed.
By telling Tom he can use anything which is truly his, she tricks him into
thinking it's a question of strength. Exactly the opposite is true, and
when he tries to use his musical talent, Polly sees that he's gone deeper
into the pool. She realizes that the only way to win is to lose, and
deprive him of everything he's counting on helping him. That's the reason
she says he's only used her, and that she never wants to see him again.
Depriving him of herself works, and Mr. Leroy is taken.
In the Coda, however, Polly realizes there's a way around Laurel's "chilly
logic". A solution analogous to the logic problem of what happens when an
irresistable force meets an immovable object. The answer being that both
cannot exist in the same system. So as Polly and Tom "can't get together
anywhere" they should be able to get together Nowhere. As that's not
possible for them either, the system can't be valid, as it were.
Basically, Laurel's own rules defeat her.
I think the Nowhere in which they could be together is the side of Nowhere
Polly describes as: "the void that lay before you when you were making up
something new out of ideas no one else had quite had before."
IIRC, in The Lion & The Unicorn article, DWJ said something along the lines
of a future for Tom and Polly being possible only if both were willing to
make continuing smaller sacrifices. So my optimism about the ending may be
justified! And they all lived happily ever after...
Hallie
hallieod at indigo.ie
LINK: http://suberic.net/pipermail/dwj/2000-May/002449.html
& more by the same author:
Hmmm... I did say I was optimistic in thinking I understood this, right?
Ok - my take would be that there was no real reason for Tom having to win
by losing, but that Laurel set the "contest" up that way to ensure that Tom
_would_ lose, as she knew Tom had so much strength. Especially compared to
Mr. Leroy.
So Polly has to reject Tom because otherwise he'll count on her love for
him, maybe? That _is_ his, just as his musical talent is his, and that was
clearly working against him. She can't tell him the way the contest is
rigged, as that counts as helping him, and also tips him further into the
pool. (Not surprising that Laurel's rules are _nasty_!)
Hallie (confused too, but still enjoying the discussion!)
hallieod at indigo.ie
LINK: http://suberic.net/pipermail/dwj/2000-May/002451.html
& then I thought this comment was quite detailed and well said:
Leroy made himself vulnerable by violating Laurel's rules about Tom's
status-- thus he was no longer absolutely a holy sacrificial goat. Here, I
agree with Hallie.
Laurel's a nasty twister, so she sets up a contest whose result will not,
she trusts, be agreeable for Tom and Polly, regardless of its outcome. (I
think she's also exhibiting jealousy, actually.) Leroy and Tom will have a
contest of which Tom and Polly, at any rate, won't quite understand the
rules. Leroy protests his lack of strength, and Laurel states not only that
each may use anything truly theirs, but that each may use the exact
equivalent of what the other has. (Pardon-- my copy is not available, so I
can't quote.)
Leroy's strength and power have always come through Laurel, who feeds him a
strong young man periodically. So what is truly his is really Laurel. With
her on his side, he cannot lose. Tom's merely human strengths are by
comparion nothing.
Polly eventually realizes the meaning of the equivalency clause. If she
deprives Tom of herself (and he was always so sure of her), then Leroy is
deprived of Laurel. This is a sacrifice that means a great deal to her--
Laurel, on the other hand, will now simply coopt Sebastian. She does not
love, but she's a great fancier of property rights. Particularly hers.
Because Polly *does* love Tom, she gives him up entirely so that he won't be
defeated and killed. When she does so, Leroy instantly loses Laurel's
support. Then Tom's wild strength overwhelms him, and Tom is saved.
Now I'll start agreeing entirely with Hallie again. :D After the storm, Tom
and Polly of course want to try being together. But can they do so without
violating Laurel's rules, and thus falling into her power once more? The
answer is yes and no. Because of Laurel's gift to Tom and his involving
Polly in it, they have two worlds-- the normalish empirical world and their
own world, Nowhere. Can they be together nowhere? Then they can be together
in their own world. And if they can't be together nowhere, then they can be
together somewhere.
I don't know whether their partnership will work, but I think Polly's
reasonable in thinking it's worth a try. Tom certainly took advantage of her
to use her as an anchor to save himself. But he *acknowledges* it. Your true
leech always accuses one of lack of love/generosity/whatever when its
leechly extractions are addressed, and thus passive-aggressively whines for
more. Tom didn't do that, and he also made considerable efforts to *keep*
Polly from attaching herself to him so firmly she'd have a hard time
withdrawing. He used her as little as he could, and he really liked her.
That's my take, anyway.
What I don't understand to my satisfaction is why gaining possession of
Polly will save Sebastian. It seems to me to go beyond simply keeping close
tabs on her. My speculations involve Polly's equivalence to Laurel. Or
perhaps just her having acquired some Laurel-powers collaterally through the
curse on Tom and her theft of the pictures? Surely it's not simply that
Sebastian is sure that in possessing her he'll keep her from Tom?
Ideas, anyone?
Mary Ann
LINK: http://suberic.net/pipermail/dwj/2000-May/002452.html
*****
More on the whole Polly/Seb relationship...
, If Tom was meant to be pulled away from Polly's attention, why would Seb bring his name up every time he sees her? My guess is, he wants her attention. The only way she seems to be paying attention to him those days, was if he brought up the topic of Thomas Lynn. Seb had the fortune of his father's stalkish ways, to find out what was going on with Tom, and thus, the information attracted her to him. If he truly meant to keep her away from Tom, to bring up his name would be a very contradictory thing to do. My guess is, the idea belonged mostly to Leroy, and not at all completely the same intention Seb had.
, In the UK version p. 297, when Polly wants to understand Tom's situation, Seb suggests for her to ask Tom directly. Why would he do such a thing if he really meant to keep them apart? Again what I mentioned in previous point.
Anyway, more later. Full credit from here (http://suberic.net/pipermail/dwj/2000-May/subject.html) @ DWJ's ML.
, Back to Sports Day, we learn about Granny's influence on Tom. That explains why the next time she sees Tom, he's awfully distant towards her. And of course, bringing Mary and Leslie too (former for himself, and the latter to distract her). ** Lost train of thought, was going to talk more about Tom/Polly's relationship but somehow swiveled to Seb/Polly. **
, I'm still not completely certain why Seb kept Polly around. Theorists suggest it's to keep Polly away from Tom, so that Leroy stands a chance of living (Tom's death = Leroy's life). But I think deep down, Seb truly liked her. Polly is described to be quite pretty, with beautiful hair. So in some ways, his actions are always swing with an underlining support for his father's life (or his own life, since he believed it has always been between Tom's life, or his own life, as a sacrifice), or his love for Polly. Yet at the same time, he never loses his cool. That would make the reader think Seb knew what he was doing, but at the end, Polly suggests that Seb had always been thinking of his life, and his life only. But since Polly never really loved Seb, I don't think she understood him completely.
, When they head towards the Middleton Fairgrounds, Seb interfers, because he knows Leroy's intention to kill Polly. He refuses to enter as well, yet he makes no further attempts to stop her from entering. I'd like to think that this supports my thought on Seb's actions. Seb's father doesn't know that Polly is being told to leave with him (Seb), but since Seb must love his father just the same (or if you will think of it this way, his own life), he lets Polly go on ahead. Then Tom becomes hurt in the process, nullifying the pact he had with Laurel. Laurel, being Laurel (as pointed out from site below), only understands and treasures rules and laws. Therefore, that explains what happened with the whirlpool near the end of the book. Tom was given a chance to fight for his life.
*****
I'm grabbing this theory from someone else, because I thought it explained a lot of the ending very well.
Not sure where "very end" exactly starts, so I'll start at Hunsdon House.
Polly claims that Mr. Leroy has forfeited his right to Tom's life by
hurting Tom when trying to kill Polly. Laurel agrees, and allows both Tom
and Mr. Leroy "a chance", to decide which one of them will be sacrificed.
By telling Tom he can use anything which is truly his, she tricks him into
thinking it's a question of strength. Exactly the opposite is true, and
when he tries to use his musical talent, Polly sees that he's gone deeper
into the pool. She realizes that the only way to win is to lose, and
deprive him of everything he's counting on helping him. That's the reason
she says he's only used her, and that she never wants to see him again.
Depriving him of herself works, and Mr. Leroy is taken.
In the Coda, however, Polly realizes there's a way around Laurel's "chilly
logic". A solution analogous to the logic problem of what happens when an
irresistable force meets an immovable object. The answer being that both
cannot exist in the same system. So as Polly and Tom "can't get together
anywhere" they should be able to get together Nowhere. As that's not
possible for them either, the system can't be valid, as it were.
Basically, Laurel's own rules defeat her.
I think the Nowhere in which they could be together is the side of Nowhere
Polly describes as: "the void that lay before you when you were making up
something new out of ideas no one else had quite had before."
IIRC, in The Lion & The Unicorn article, DWJ said something along the lines
of a future for Tom and Polly being possible only if both were willing to
make continuing smaller sacrifices. So my optimism about the ending may be
justified! And they all lived happily ever after...
Hallie
hallieod at indigo.ie
LINK: http://suberic.net/pipermail/dwj/2000-May/002449.html
& more by the same author:
Hmmm... I did say I was optimistic in thinking I understood this, right?
Ok - my take would be that there was no real reason for Tom having to win
by losing, but that Laurel set the "contest" up that way to ensure that Tom
_would_ lose, as she knew Tom had so much strength. Especially compared to
Mr. Leroy.
So Polly has to reject Tom because otherwise he'll count on her love for
him, maybe? That _is_ his, just as his musical talent is his, and that was
clearly working against him. She can't tell him the way the contest is
rigged, as that counts as helping him, and also tips him further into the
pool. (Not surprising that Laurel's rules are _nasty_!)
Hallie (confused too, but still enjoying the discussion!)
hallieod at indigo.ie
LINK: http://suberic.net/pipermail/dwj/2000-May/002451.html
& then I thought this comment was quite detailed and well said:
Leroy made himself vulnerable by violating Laurel's rules about Tom's
status-- thus he was no longer absolutely a holy sacrificial goat. Here, I
agree with Hallie.
Laurel's a nasty twister, so she sets up a contest whose result will not,
she trusts, be agreeable for Tom and Polly, regardless of its outcome. (I
think she's also exhibiting jealousy, actually.) Leroy and Tom will have a
contest of which Tom and Polly, at any rate, won't quite understand the
rules. Leroy protests his lack of strength, and Laurel states not only that
each may use anything truly theirs, but that each may use the exact
equivalent of what the other has. (Pardon-- my copy is not available, so I
can't quote.)
Leroy's strength and power have always come through Laurel, who feeds him a
strong young man periodically. So what is truly his is really Laurel. With
her on his side, he cannot lose. Tom's merely human strengths are by
comparion nothing.
Polly eventually realizes the meaning of the equivalency clause. If she
deprives Tom of herself (and he was always so sure of her), then Leroy is
deprived of Laurel. This is a sacrifice that means a great deal to her--
Laurel, on the other hand, will now simply coopt Sebastian. She does not
love, but she's a great fancier of property rights. Particularly hers.
Because Polly *does* love Tom, she gives him up entirely so that he won't be
defeated and killed. When she does so, Leroy instantly loses Laurel's
support. Then Tom's wild strength overwhelms him, and Tom is saved.
Now I'll start agreeing entirely with Hallie again. :D After the storm, Tom
and Polly of course want to try being together. But can they do so without
violating Laurel's rules, and thus falling into her power once more? The
answer is yes and no. Because of Laurel's gift to Tom and his involving
Polly in it, they have two worlds-- the normalish empirical world and their
own world, Nowhere. Can they be together nowhere? Then they can be together
in their own world. And if they can't be together nowhere, then they can be
together somewhere.
I don't know whether their partnership will work, but I think Polly's
reasonable in thinking it's worth a try. Tom certainly took advantage of her
to use her as an anchor to save himself. But he *acknowledges* it. Your true
leech always accuses one of lack of love/generosity/whatever when its
leechly extractions are addressed, and thus passive-aggressively whines for
more. Tom didn't do that, and he also made considerable efforts to *keep*
Polly from attaching herself to him so firmly she'd have a hard time
withdrawing. He used her as little as he could, and he really liked her.
That's my take, anyway.
What I don't understand to my satisfaction is why gaining possession of
Polly will save Sebastian. It seems to me to go beyond simply keeping close
tabs on her. My speculations involve Polly's equivalence to Laurel. Or
perhaps just her having acquired some Laurel-powers collaterally through the
curse on Tom and her theft of the pictures? Surely it's not simply that
Sebastian is sure that in possessing her he'll keep her from Tom?
Ideas, anyone?
Mary Ann
LINK: http://suberic.net/pipermail/dwj/2000-May/002452.html
*****
More on the whole Polly/Seb relationship...
, If Tom was meant to be pulled away from Polly's attention, why would Seb bring his name up every time he sees her? My guess is, he wants her attention. The only way she seems to be paying attention to him those days, was if he brought up the topic of Thomas Lynn. Seb had the fortune of his father's stalkish ways, to find out what was going on with Tom, and thus, the information attracted her to him. If he truly meant to keep her away from Tom, to bring up his name would be a very contradictory thing to do. My guess is, the idea belonged mostly to Leroy, and not at all completely the same intention Seb had.
, In the UK version p. 297, when Polly wants to understand Tom's situation, Seb suggests for her to ask Tom directly. Why would he do such a thing if he really meant to keep them apart? Again what I mentioned in previous point.
Anyway, more later. Full credit from here (http://suberic.net/pipermail/dwj/2000-May/subject.html) @ DWJ's ML.