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So! Rather recently, Haine and Ikki both called Dera on one of his most core issues. (ftr it was lack of faith in himself, but the specific issue isn't really relevant, just that it was a Big One.) Haine managed to top him and, in doing so, elevated herself to someone Dera regards very closely and places a lot of trust in. Ikki, on the other hand, came just short of destroying their friendship as it is now. He was able to salvage it, but it's on shaky ground for the time being. Now, this is weird! Both incidents took place within a day or so of each other, but the reactions were polar opposites. And reversed from the way one might expect on the surface since Dera's known Ikki for a year or so and Haine only a month or two. You'd think the longer relationship was the stronger one, yeah? Well there's a logic here. It just happens to be Dera logic. :| Let us go through the differences!
I. The manner in which the friendships began was vastly different.
The thing with Dera: first impressions are everything. He makes decisions about a person within just a few minutes of meeting them (two or three comments). This decision is more or less solidified into "fact" after a few more minutes provided nothing happens to change his mind (three or four comments). It is very difficult to change his mind on these decisions and only gets harder as time goes on. Sometimes this can work to a person's benefit! For example, Dera has a poor relationship with Shamal these days, but Shamal can always expect that Dera will never do any sort of serious harm to him. He was Dera's childhood role model, and Dera isn't going to forget that. And naturally, it can also work against a person. Like, Yamamoto is always going to have some amount of difficulty getting Dera to approach him as a friend. Dera first began to think of him as a rival and is always going to have some issues with regard to that. :| But the point is that first impressions pretty much always linger with Very Few exceptions.
Ikki had the misfortune of starting off his relationship with Dera on aggressive terms. They got their start as casual enemies -- like kids on the school yard that just couldn't get along. They fought and argued and generally got on poorly. Obviously this has changed! But that initial impression is always going to tell him that Ikki is an aggressive presence. This is someone his guard should be kept up around. He can't rely on him totally because there's literally a mental block there. He just can't forget the initial impression.
Haine, on the other hand, approached him as -- well. Uh. He was a little heart sharded at the time, but she was kind to him IN SPITE OF HIM BEING A GIANT DOUCHE. Which! He felt he totally did not deserve! She should've hit him more. :|b Also she was really. Optimistic to the point of being a moron. So he ended up filing her away as a nice but stupid girl. A non-mafia pest. :/ Ignore at will, but at the same time nice enough to warrant beating on anyone that might've been seriously bothering her. But yes, overall his impression of her was a positive, if mildly annoying one.
II. The friendships progressed along very different paths.
Typically Dera likes to keep, or at least feel like he's kept, most if not all the control in any relationship and how it develops. It ties back to issues with trust -- more often than not he just does not feel comfortable allowing another person to have that much say in his actions. He will fight you like an angry cat for what he thinks is his fair say. >F
Now, Haine keeps to this pretty well! She is interested in him and is pretty open about wanting to learn more about him, but she also backs down when he makes it clear he doesn't like what she's trying to get at. :| He never really feels threatened by her questions. She pushes at things just enough to nudge things along in baby steps typical of most of his canon relationships. He may not always be entirely comfortable with it, but he can certainly tolerate it well enough. It's a familiar pace -- steady and slow.
Ikki's much more forceful in their friendship. Also unpredictable as far as Dera's concerned. At times, things will follow the same slow progression that Dera prefers. But Ikki, more than anyone Dera regularly interacts with, is prone to pushing things. He doesn't always back down from things Dera wants to avoid. He'll press an issue until Dera caves or explodes and, even though it may be a fairly peaceful point of progression, being dragged along into admitting things or giving up information is a surefire way to leave Dera set on edge for a day or so. He doesn't like it! Yes, he's able to get past it and maintain the friendship -- he does like the friendship. But the thing is that these more forceful developments (which I again say are not necessarily BAD, they just are things that rub Dera the wrong way as they occur -- he gets over it okay) but these interactions do leave an uneasy feeling at the back of Dera's mind that ties back into his initial impression of Ikki. It makes him a little wary, and makes that initial impression something that's harder to forget.
III. Differing levels of aggression.
I am going to use a special definition of aggression here, so pay attention! In regards to Dera, aggression is not the same as fighting. Fighting can be a great stress relief for him -- he's a shounen retard after all. :| IT IS MANLY BONDING. Aggression as it relates to Dera is more like an attempt to control or force a situation that involves yelling and/or violence. It's meant to describe behavior and intent, not just fighting of any sort in general. Anything that leaves him feeling attacked or cornered or defensive is something he sees as aggressive. It's also important to note that Dera is sort've fucked up and what he sees as aggressive may not actually be aggressive. He is just -- fucked up! Yeah.
ANYWAY. Haine has an extremely low level of aggression as Dera sees it. When she does get angry he either deserves it -- like when he's picking on her, or she's gotten frustrated because he's avoiding giving out information. In the first instance, he totally knows he deserves it. He expects it and is okay with it, and Haine only yells anyway. This is totally cool with him. :|b In the second instance, it's a very low key sort of anger! She gets frustrated and yells a bit and then either ends the conversation or moves on to a different topic. She always gets over it completely, and that throws Dera a little! He's not used to someone who actually does get angry but then forgets about it so entirely so quickly. Hell, even when he thinks she should be angry at him she's already gotten over it sometimes. But he does get the impression that it's very genuinely how she is, and he likes that. It's nice and actually makes him a little more protective of her. She gets over some things too easily. :/
Ikki though, is a dick. :|b HE IS. Anger often gets translated into violence with him. As with Haine, this is totally fine with Dera when he feels he deserves it. And generally violence from Ikki doesn't bother him. But when Ikki's forcing the friendship along like I mentioned in the previous section, that comes across aggressively to Dera. He doesn't particularly WANT to give in at those times. He's pretty much got to be cornered and forced into stuff like that, so obviously he's gonna view it as an aggressive act. :| AS I SAID HE DOES GET OVER IT but. Uneasy feelings, yes. He does not like it.
IV. They both took a very different approach in how they approached Dera with the information.
I don't have any point of reference to ramble about for this one. :|
We'll start with Haine's thread since she's the one who initiated the entire thing. Now, she came to the realization on her own and very simply asked him about it. She was very . . . gentle about it, I think is what I want to say. She even tells him it's alright while he's denying it. There's nothing in her choice of words that gave Dera the impression that she'd decided he is this way, only her expression. And that expression is a sympathetic one -- not in any way superior. He just kept flipping out because it is a Big Issue, and those issues are ones that he takes as being signs of weakness or being somehow worth less than other people. He is very plainly Not Okay with people knowing them! :|
So! Dera's bitching, and it's only when he starts actively making an attempt to shut her out that she starts to snap back. Only, her method of snapping back is to tell him he does have a place he belongs and that he knows things about her -- even accuses him of assuming things about her. It's bold! blahblahmadeanothergirlcryorz so! She starts calling him on caring about her and ends up forcing him into admitting it. And once she's done that he really does have to stop and think about the whole conversation and it's at that point that he realized she hadn't done anything to set off his defenses aside from actually calling him on the Big Issue. She'd only asked about it and hadn't given any indication that she thought less of him for it -- the exact opposite! Mentioning his family as something he could talk about was probably the most effective thing she did the whole thread; it implied, to him, that she thought of him as someone worth having those things. There just wasn't anything in the conversation he could point at and go 'and this is why she's a bitch', so!
Now, Ikki's thread is immediately very different. Dera knew the second Ikki spoke to him that Ikki knew. Because Ikki's a moron and basically told him, but so what. :| POINT IS, Dera actually values the friendship a lot. He didn't want to acknowledge that Ikki knew this, didn't want to deal with having to think about it. So he gave him an out when he told him to fuck off, but Ikki's a MORON and didn't take it. Instead he continues to rather blandly refer to it and goes on to say he's going to thank Haine. Dera took this very poorly. H-he just couldn't at all understand why Ikki would want to go thank someone for calling him on something that Dera sees as a giant flaw/weakness/what-have-you. Ikki is extremely different from Haine, so it just didn't occur to Dera that Ikki might have thought of it the same way she did! He's the less trustworthy, more aggressive of the two and has proved himself to be so time and time again -- at least he has in Dera's eyes. Basically, since he can't understand Ikki's intent, he assumes the worst because it's what he expects out of people in general, and Ikki hasn't done anything to make himself an exception yet.
And then, after Dera's made it as clear as he POSSIBLY CAN that he DOES NOT WANT, I-Ikki continues to press the issue. Which makes it worse! And it gets to the point that Dera was literally ready to give up on the friendship and walk away. And he would have done just that prior tooooo this comment. That gave him just enough pause to stick around and listen to the rest of what Ikki said, and the friendship is strong enough that it all did get through to him on some level. He's still not at all okay with Ikki knowing this stuff, but he's not in a completely defensive state regarding it now.
V. In Conclusion:
So really I wrote this because I was worried over the VASTLY DIFFERENT REACTIONS and needed to think it out and make sure I hadn't made any stupid decisions at some point, but having typed it all out I think it makes sense now. 8( Haine is a sweet girl who has always, always been a sweet girl to Dera, even when he thinks he doesn't deserve it. It hits him very hard in his pings for kindness. :( So he was able to deal with her calling him on things much better! She's a non-threat and was a non-threat during the thread so he reacted as such. Ikki however is a moron, much as he likes him, and has always been a moron. And a dick. And was a moron in the thread. That coupled with Dera's lack of understanding wtf he was doing made for a bad situation that -- went like a bad situation. 8( orz.
SO QUESTIONS ARE TOTALLY WELCOMED. I'm sure I've brushed over stuff or gotten confusing somewhere. Also I like questions. :( ASK ME THINGS.
I. The manner in which the friendships began was vastly different.
The thing with Dera: first impressions are everything. He makes decisions about a person within just a few minutes of meeting them (two or three comments). This decision is more or less solidified into "fact" after a few more minutes provided nothing happens to change his mind (three or four comments). It is very difficult to change his mind on these decisions and only gets harder as time goes on. Sometimes this can work to a person's benefit! For example, Dera has a poor relationship with Shamal these days, but Shamal can always expect that Dera will never do any sort of serious harm to him. He was Dera's childhood role model, and Dera isn't going to forget that. And naturally, it can also work against a person. Like, Yamamoto is always going to have some amount of difficulty getting Dera to approach him as a friend. Dera first began to think of him as a rival and is always going to have some issues with regard to that. :| But the point is that first impressions pretty much always linger with Very Few exceptions.
Ikki had the misfortune of starting off his relationship with Dera on aggressive terms. They got their start as casual enemies -- like kids on the school yard that just couldn't get along. They fought and argued and generally got on poorly. Obviously this has changed! But that initial impression is always going to tell him that Ikki is an aggressive presence. This is someone his guard should be kept up around. He can't rely on him totally because there's literally a mental block there. He just can't forget the initial impression.
Haine, on the other hand, approached him as -- well. Uh. He was a little heart sharded at the time, but she was kind to him IN SPITE OF HIM BEING A GIANT DOUCHE. Which! He felt he totally did not deserve! She should've hit him more. :|b Also she was really. Optimistic to the point of being a moron. So he ended up filing her away as a nice but stupid girl. A non-mafia pest. :/ Ignore at will, but at the same time nice enough to warrant beating on anyone that might've been seriously bothering her. But yes, overall his impression of her was a positive, if mildly annoying one.
II. The friendships progressed along very different paths.
Typically Dera likes to keep, or at least feel like he's kept, most if not all the control in any relationship and how it develops. It ties back to issues with trust -- more often than not he just does not feel comfortable allowing another person to have that much say in his actions. He will fight you like an angry cat for what he thinks is his fair say. >F
Now, Haine keeps to this pretty well! She is interested in him and is pretty open about wanting to learn more about him, but she also backs down when he makes it clear he doesn't like what she's trying to get at. :| He never really feels threatened by her questions. She pushes at things just enough to nudge things along in baby steps typical of most of his canon relationships. He may not always be entirely comfortable with it, but he can certainly tolerate it well enough. It's a familiar pace -- steady and slow.
Ikki's much more forceful in their friendship. Also unpredictable as far as Dera's concerned. At times, things will follow the same slow progression that Dera prefers. But Ikki, more than anyone Dera regularly interacts with, is prone to pushing things. He doesn't always back down from things Dera wants to avoid. He'll press an issue until Dera caves or explodes and, even though it may be a fairly peaceful point of progression, being dragged along into admitting things or giving up information is a surefire way to leave Dera set on edge for a day or so. He doesn't like it! Yes, he's able to get past it and maintain the friendship -- he does like the friendship. But the thing is that these more forceful developments (which I again say are not necessarily BAD, they just are things that rub Dera the wrong way as they occur -- he gets over it okay) but these interactions do leave an uneasy feeling at the back of Dera's mind that ties back into his initial impression of Ikki. It makes him a little wary, and makes that initial impression something that's harder to forget.
III. Differing levels of aggression.
I am going to use a special definition of aggression here, so pay attention! In regards to Dera, aggression is not the same as fighting. Fighting can be a great stress relief for him -- he's a shounen retard after all. :| IT IS MANLY BONDING. Aggression as it relates to Dera is more like an attempt to control or force a situation that involves yelling and/or violence. It's meant to describe behavior and intent, not just fighting of any sort in general. Anything that leaves him feeling attacked or cornered or defensive is something he sees as aggressive. It's also important to note that Dera is sort've fucked up and what he sees as aggressive may not actually be aggressive. He is just -- fucked up! Yeah.
ANYWAY. Haine has an extremely low level of aggression as Dera sees it. When she does get angry he either deserves it -- like when he's picking on her, or she's gotten frustrated because he's avoiding giving out information. In the first instance, he totally knows he deserves it. He expects it and is okay with it, and Haine only yells anyway. This is totally cool with him. :|b In the second instance, it's a very low key sort of anger! She gets frustrated and yells a bit and then either ends the conversation or moves on to a different topic. She always gets over it completely, and that throws Dera a little! He's not used to someone who actually does get angry but then forgets about it so entirely so quickly. Hell, even when he thinks she should be angry at him she's already gotten over it sometimes. But he does get the impression that it's very genuinely how she is, and he likes that. It's nice and actually makes him a little more protective of her. She gets over some things too easily. :/
Ikki though, is a dick. :|b HE IS. Anger often gets translated into violence with him. As with Haine, this is totally fine with Dera when he feels he deserves it. And generally violence from Ikki doesn't bother him. But when Ikki's forcing the friendship along like I mentioned in the previous section, that comes across aggressively to Dera. He doesn't particularly WANT to give in at those times. He's pretty much got to be cornered and forced into stuff like that, so obviously he's gonna view it as an aggressive act. :| AS I SAID HE DOES GET OVER IT but. Uneasy feelings, yes. He does not like it.
IV. They both took a very different approach in how they approached Dera with the information.
I don't have any point of reference to ramble about for this one. :|
We'll start with Haine's thread since she's the one who initiated the entire thing. Now, she came to the realization on her own and very simply asked him about it. She was very . . . gentle about it, I think is what I want to say. She even tells him it's alright while he's denying it. There's nothing in her choice of words that gave Dera the impression that she'd decided he is this way, only her expression. And that expression is a sympathetic one -- not in any way superior. He just kept flipping out because it is a Big Issue, and those issues are ones that he takes as being signs of weakness or being somehow worth less than other people. He is very plainly Not Okay with people knowing them! :|
So! Dera's bitching, and it's only when he starts actively making an attempt to shut her out that she starts to snap back. Only, her method of snapping back is to tell him he does have a place he belongs and that he knows things about her -- even accuses him of assuming things about her. It's bold! blahblahmadeanothergirlcryorz so! She starts calling him on caring about her and ends up forcing him into admitting it. And once she's done that he really does have to stop and think about the whole conversation and it's at that point that he realized she hadn't done anything to set off his defenses aside from actually calling him on the Big Issue. She'd only asked about it and hadn't given any indication that she thought less of him for it -- the exact opposite! Mentioning his family as something he could talk about was probably the most effective thing she did the whole thread; it implied, to him, that she thought of him as someone worth having those things. There just wasn't anything in the conversation he could point at and go 'and this is why she's a bitch', so!
Now, Ikki's thread is immediately very different. Dera knew the second Ikki spoke to him that Ikki knew. Because Ikki's a moron and basically told him, but so what. :| POINT IS, Dera actually values the friendship a lot. He didn't want to acknowledge that Ikki knew this, didn't want to deal with having to think about it. So he gave him an out when he told him to fuck off, but Ikki's a MORON and didn't take it. Instead he continues to rather blandly refer to it and goes on to say he's going to thank Haine. Dera took this very poorly. H-he just couldn't at all understand why Ikki would want to go thank someone for calling him on something that Dera sees as a giant flaw/weakness/what-have-you. Ikki is extremely different from Haine, so it just didn't occur to Dera that Ikki might have thought of it the same way she did! He's the less trustworthy, more aggressive of the two and has proved himself to be so time and time again -- at least he has in Dera's eyes. Basically, since he can't understand Ikki's intent, he assumes the worst because it's what he expects out of people in general, and Ikki hasn't done anything to make himself an exception yet.
And then, after Dera's made it as clear as he POSSIBLY CAN that he DOES NOT WANT, I-Ikki continues to press the issue. Which makes it worse! And it gets to the point that Dera was literally ready to give up on the friendship and walk away. And he would have done just that prior tooooo this comment. That gave him just enough pause to stick around and listen to the rest of what Ikki said, and the friendship is strong enough that it all did get through to him on some level. He's still not at all okay with Ikki knowing this stuff, but he's not in a completely defensive state regarding it now.
V. In Conclusion:
So really I wrote this because I was worried over the VASTLY DIFFERENT REACTIONS and needed to think it out and make sure I hadn't made any stupid decisions at some point, but having typed it all out I think it makes sense now. 8( Haine is a sweet girl who has always, always been a sweet girl to Dera, even when he thinks he doesn't deserve it. It hits him very hard in his pings for kindness. :( So he was able to deal with her calling him on things much better! She's a non-threat and was a non-threat during the thread so he reacted as such. Ikki however is a moron, much as he likes him, and has always been a moron. And a dick. And was a moron in the thread. That coupled with Dera's lack of understanding wtf he was doing made for a bad situation that -- went like a bad situation. 8( orz.
SO QUESTIONS ARE TOTALLY WELCOMED. I'm sure I've brushed over stuff or gotten confusing somewhere. Also I like questions. :( ASK ME THINGS.