Comments on my previous post
This started out as a response to what darekana wrote in a comment on my previous post, but it was getting really long for a comment, so I decided to just post it as a separate entry.
darekana's comment:
"Well, not so much in defense of evolution as science and scientists...
I think you've made the mistake of associating the theory of evolution - and science-based analyses of the natural world - with atheism and agnosticism. While there are certainly many atheist/agnostic scientists out there, there are also many who are members of some religion, and others (myself included) who certainly believe in God or a higher power without necessarily following an organized faith. Indeed, there's really nothing in evolutionary theory or even , say, big bang theory that requires the disbelief in a higher power. As they say, "the Lord works in mysterious ways." Why couldn't He have worked through evolution?"
I'm not saying all scientists are wrong, just that many subscribe to a view that I believe doesn't make sense. Also, "science-based analyses of the natural world" isn't equivalent to evolution. In what I wrote here I was only opposing evolution, not other sorts of theories.
Anyway, it's not that the existence of a higher power in general isn't incompatible with evolution, and it's not even just that my personal faith is incompatible with evolution, it's that I've heard scientific evidence that's incompatible with evolution. I have seen nothing that justifies it, and a number of things that oppose it. I can find specific examples if anyone's curious.
Normally, when evidence opposes a scientific theory, the evidence is checked and verified, and then the theory undergoes more testing and revision or sometimes a complete overhaul or replacement by a more accurate theory if necessary to incorporate the new evidence. This doesn't seem to have happened with evolution at all. In fact, sometimes evidence has been falsified to attempt to support evolution and then later that evidence was unveiled as being fake (the example of some supposedly proto-human bones comes to mind). In addition, some of the evidence against evolution has been swept under the carpet and ignored by scientists whose work would have been influenced by it.
"Why couldn't God have worked through evolution?" There it depends on what sort of God you're talking about. Certainly as I said before, an omnipotent higher power in general could have. I don't have a problem with that logical possibility. But the God I know didn't. I don't like suddenly quoting Bible verses to people who don't acknowledge its truth, but it's perfectly clear in Genesis 2:7, "And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Of course, that part is just my faith-based opinion, you can take it or leave it as you wish.
Also, they do say, "the Lord works in mysterious ways," but that isn't a Christian saying. It isn't in the Bible at all. The Lord's ways aren't meant to be mysterious to those who know Him. Perhaps an unspecified higher power would work in mysterious ways because there's no revelation of his nature and motives, but the Bible has much to say about God's nature and His plan for this world. It doesn't mean that we automatically know what God would do in a particular situation, just that we know the values on which His actions are based and examples of the methods by which He works. However, if what happens in this world often seems inexplicable, it just means that we are limited in our capacity to understand the situation.
This probably raised a whole 'nother kettle of fish (am I mixing metaphors here?) but I thought the comment was interesting enough that I ought to respond as best I could.
darekana's comment:
"Well, not so much in defense of evolution as science and scientists...
I think you've made the mistake of associating the theory of evolution - and science-based analyses of the natural world - with atheism and agnosticism. While there are certainly many atheist/agnostic scientists out there, there are also many who are members of some religion, and others (myself included) who certainly believe in God or a higher power without necessarily following an organized faith. Indeed, there's really nothing in evolutionary theory or even , say, big bang theory that requires the disbelief in a higher power. As they say, "the Lord works in mysterious ways." Why couldn't He have worked through evolution?"
I'm not saying all scientists are wrong, just that many subscribe to a view that I believe doesn't make sense. Also, "science-based analyses of the natural world" isn't equivalent to evolution. In what I wrote here I was only opposing evolution, not other sorts of theories.
Anyway, it's not that the existence of a higher power in general isn't incompatible with evolution, and it's not even just that my personal faith is incompatible with evolution, it's that I've heard scientific evidence that's incompatible with evolution. I have seen nothing that justifies it, and a number of things that oppose it. I can find specific examples if anyone's curious.
Normally, when evidence opposes a scientific theory, the evidence is checked and verified, and then the theory undergoes more testing and revision or sometimes a complete overhaul or replacement by a more accurate theory if necessary to incorporate the new evidence. This doesn't seem to have happened with evolution at all. In fact, sometimes evidence has been falsified to attempt to support evolution and then later that evidence was unveiled as being fake (the example of some supposedly proto-human bones comes to mind). In addition, some of the evidence against evolution has been swept under the carpet and ignored by scientists whose work would have been influenced by it.
"Why couldn't God have worked through evolution?" There it depends on what sort of God you're talking about. Certainly as I said before, an omnipotent higher power in general could have. I don't have a problem with that logical possibility. But the God I know didn't. I don't like suddenly quoting Bible verses to people who don't acknowledge its truth, but it's perfectly clear in Genesis 2:7, "And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Of course, that part is just my faith-based opinion, you can take it or leave it as you wish.
Also, they do say, "the Lord works in mysterious ways," but that isn't a Christian saying. It isn't in the Bible at all. The Lord's ways aren't meant to be mysterious to those who know Him. Perhaps an unspecified higher power would work in mysterious ways because there's no revelation of his nature and motives, but the Bible has much to say about God's nature and His plan for this world. It doesn't mean that we automatically know what God would do in a particular situation, just that we know the values on which His actions are based and examples of the methods by which He works. However, if what happens in this world often seems inexplicable, it just means that we are limited in our capacity to understand the situation.
This probably raised a whole 'nother kettle of fish (am I mixing metaphors here?) but I thought the comment was interesting enough that I ought to respond as best I could.