On the subject of self

[thatmikeguy]

I want to escape the derivative. Everything in my life that is. I know that it's at least highly improbable that it can be done... perhaps impossible, but I don't believe that knowledge will quell the desire I have to perceive things free of predisposition and preconception. It's not that I don't value my own experiences, and the body of human

Comments

[sgrsmk]

I agree w/ the quote to a degree. I think humans as a whole tend to not seek out their optimal value because they are stagnant.

But I find the first sentence: "we are the result of all kinds of influences and there is nothing new in us" an oxymoron because it is our experiences/influences that make us different.

Tis' my opinion.

Re:

[thatmikeguy]

I definitely believe people TEND to not seek anything beyond the superficial existence, although I feel lucky to know quite a few who look further.

I think the difference for me, and the thing I'm saying I'm looking for is different than a new variant created by a complex set of influences/experiences though. It's hard to explain, or even conceptualize for me, because it's outside of my 'existence.' It's like what I said in the post: like trying to think outside of language. How do you think of things without language. It's easy to imagine thinking of simple abstract images without language, but as soon as you add a representation of something tangible or a complex idea, it starts to get very difficult. As soon as you apply language to something, you immediately create a complex set of preconceptions and constructs to describe that thing instead of taking it for what it truly is.

hmm ;)

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[sgrsmk]

Things exist outside of language. Things exist outside of existence.

People don't respect that concept however.

I can never make words for my thoughts or feelings.

Therefore, they do not exist.

Except to me.

Tis' the same for you I suspect.

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[thatmikeguy]

I like the fact that you use 'tis (even though the apostrophe is on the wrong side... heheh ;) )

Definitely. I agree. I just wish two things: One, that my art/music/writing/expression in general were more in sync with those things (which is of course something I'm working on), and two, that more of my daily life wasn't restrained to the superficial, repetitive, derivative existence that it is now.

I also want to believe there is a way to conceptualize my existence without other people's ideas... true self realization... that's the hard one I think. How do you see yourself without the societal filter. I mean, I have a very strong sense of self, but I'm interested in delving deeper.

you rock by the way :)

[uke]

Reading your first paragraph, I thought: "I should tell Mike about Krishnamurti."--only to discover the quotation at the bottom, which was clearly the one you mentioned to me earlier today.

The quotation is not wrong. It's where we start from. It sounds pessimistic at first, but it's really an opportunity.

I'll send you an email on this shortly.

Re:

[thatmikeguy]

Agreed. I would imagine it's bad to take that quote out of context. I definitely believe it's where we start from, and I definitely believe it is one of the only true opportunities we have.

The encapsulated quote is just an infinitive statement to some extent, especially since the author is included in 'we.' I was very aware that this particular quote was quite different from the other Krishnamurti quotes you had on your page though... and would expect a followup of that nature if I had read the whole passage (which I am in the process of getting :) ). Thanks for the info and for sharing the original quote.