Standing on the shoulders of people taller than average

[the_rukh]

or, why smart people are dumb.

While making a response about something I was entirely unqualified to be talking about in... another community... =.= I had a small discussion with a person.

They were trying to convince me of a position, and honestly I didn't have a credible argument against. The thing is, I was probably right. Why? Because I was

Comments

[theotherjay]

If your facts are made up, you haven't "out logiced" someone.

/out logics people for a living

[the_rukh]

Not *literally* made up, but they might not be grounded in reality though you believe them to be. It's a bit different in your case for a few reasons, mainly because you really do it for a job. :P

I'm talking about people who just jump in not knowing anything and feel they won because they had a convincing argument, even though they might not know what they are talking about. In that case, even if the other person actually doesn't have a convincing argument, if they opt to believe the word of a person who knows a lot about the subject, they're still more likely to be right.

[theotherjay]

The misunderstandings of 'logic' and 'credibility' and expertise seem to be legion here, but

http://www.xkcd.com/386/

[the_rukh]

Nah, the thing is logic is just argument structure. You can argue a completely logical argument but if your premise is bullshit, it doesn't matter what you end up with. It will still be correctly logical. Logic is just a formal structure, it doesn't guarantee truth.

[farchivist]

I have no interest in a "good logical argument", myself. My main questions when truly debating something are:
- What are the known facts of the matter?
- What do the experts have to say about this? Is there any widely accepted position?
- How does the opponent's assertion measure up with all this?

This gets me accused of "argument from authority" all the time, but I don't really give a shit because I actually believe that expertise is a desirable thing and following the determinations of people who expert whatever for a living has always worked quite well for me.

I've noticed that most people on LJ who discard expertise in favor of a "logical argument" usually presume, even if unsaid, to know better than any expert in question. Even if it's rarely admitted. madscience is a perfect example of that.