See this is one of those reasons that I know I'll never be a writer. I don't think these things out so clearly! I know that I've read stories where the holes were pretty big and had a few choice thoughts regarding said holes. I understand the whole idea of artistic license and etc. There are times, such as you pointed out, that the premise is beyond overlooking or being swept aside
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I really hate reading stories and then two days later remembering and going 'Wait, that didn't make any sense, and oh, ugh.' and want to reach for the brain bleach because I didn't see things that squick me out in the rush of squee over new fic/trope.
I've been seeing this linked around a couple times, so I was just wondering:
Is this just a note addressed to authors who are doing the things you're talking about, or were you looking to start a dialogue/discussion on the trope? I don't mind not butting in if this isn't an open discussion invite. :)
I would very much like a polite discussion on the topic. That's one reason why I tried to write so much of it in the form of questions. I don't mind being disagreed with.
There are things in this essay that in hindsight I wish I'd either left out or said differently (or added). At the same time, I don't want to make discussion...not match the essay by changing it at this point.
Okay, well, I'm sure fandom's dogpiled on you plenty about your tone and kinkshaming and not actually reading any of the myriad of Omegaverse fics that actually do spend time on worldbuilding, so I'm not really going to bother rehashing any of that, since I'm sure you're already aware of it now.
And I'm not really sure how to phrase this but I feel like you're approaching fandom, tropes, and the idea of writing-porn-to-turn-people-on from a fundamentally different angle than many other people are.
You assert Slapping an Alpha/Beta/Omega Dynamics tag on a fic is just plain not enough to excuse a lack of in-story background support for why someone who’s plainly impaired (because they’re in heat, or because they’re under the influence of pheromones given off by someone who is) is capable of giving consent at all.But I feel like you're missing a couple key points here, which I'd like to assert
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Applying critical thinking to kink is always a good thing and does NOT equate to kink-shaming. Raising questions is a good thing
For me the thing is, A/B/O doesn't HAVE to be chock full of consent issues, reproductive coercion and female erasion so the attitude that "Well duh it's implied" bothers me a lot. Because to me that smacks of buying into the bigger issues of rape culture and reproducing them in fic with just changed labels.
I actually didn't find any underlying questions in the essay itself, aside from a lot that were more world-building prompts and less discussion points -- unless the essay itself was meant to be more along the lines of "let's have a worldbuilding brainstorming party", but it really doesn't come across that way. There are a lot of interesting questions that the existence of the whole A/B/O thing brings up. But I haven't actually seen people genuinely ask them in the open, though I have seen them be implied and even even answered implicitly
( ... )
Sorry for the dealy in replying, I as out in the wilds with no real internets for a while!
Ok so - First off I have to admit that I have zero experience witht he Supernatural origins of the trope because SPN has never been my fandom. I have, however, read it pretty extensively in a lot of other fandoms so I've seen a lot of things done with it.
Basically, from my point of view making the assumption that anyone reading A/B/O will automatically know there willbe consent issues and even more so, recognize those consent issues is propagating rape culture. A bit like Twilight - those of us who already know better see it as a horrible abusive controlling mess, but a lot of people romanticize the hell out of it. By writing eroticized/romanticized descriptions of acts that lack consent without a frame of reference where this is noted, the lack of consent is given an air of normalcy. As much as we'd like to think everyone in fandom is a well-read feminist, etc, that is simply not the case
( ... )
To be be sure, A/B/O is an evolving trope in fandom. I admit I haven't read much of it, simply because every time I come across such a story, I'm turned off by the bad writing. I'm further hampered by the fact that I'm only interested in certain fandoms and pairings. Alas.
That admitted, anyone who's read my writing knows I'm attracted to issues of consent, but I ultimately try and establish that the sex/relationship IS consensual. I do love to play with the line, though, and I enjoy writers who play with it. Frogg and I disagree on this (we've known each other for a few years), but we agree to disagree.
I think it's important to remember that she's just expressing her opinion. It's her blog - she's allowed. First Amendment, remember? Some people have mentioned "kinkshaming," but what about "metashaming" or "squickshaming"? No one has to agree with her, nor is she demanding that writers agree with her. She's just expressing her ideas.
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I really hate reading stories and then two days later remembering and going 'Wait, that didn't make any sense, and oh, ugh.' and want to reach for the brain bleach because I didn't see things that squick me out in the rush of squee over new fic/trope.
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Is this just a note addressed to authors who are doing the things you're talking about, or were you looking to start a dialogue/discussion on the trope? I don't mind not butting in if this isn't an open discussion invite. :)
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I would very much like a polite discussion on the topic. That's one reason why I tried to write so much of it in the form of questions. I don't mind being disagreed with.
There are things in this essay that in hindsight I wish I'd either left out or said differently (or added). At the same time, I don't want to make discussion...not match the essay by changing it at this point.
But feel free to jump in if you like.
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And I'm not really sure how to phrase this but I feel like you're approaching fandom, tropes, and the idea of writing-porn-to-turn-people-on from a fundamentally different angle than many other people are.
You assert Slapping an Alpha/Beta/Omega Dynamics tag on a fic is just plain not enough to excuse a lack of in-story background support for why someone who’s plainly impaired (because they’re in heat, or because they’re under the influence of pheromones given off by someone who is) is capable of giving consent at all.But I feel like you're missing a couple key points here, which I'd like to assert ( ... )
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For me the thing is, A/B/O doesn't HAVE to be chock full of consent issues, reproductive coercion and female erasion so the attitude that "Well duh it's implied" bothers me a lot. Because to me that smacks of buying into the bigger issues of rape culture and reproducing them in fic with just changed labels.
Besides, people. Tone argument? Seriously?!
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Ok so - First off I have to admit that I have zero experience witht he Supernatural origins of the trope because SPN has never been my fandom. I have, however, read it pretty extensively in a lot of other fandoms so I've seen a lot of things done with it.
Basically, from my point of view making the assumption that anyone reading A/B/O will automatically know there willbe consent issues and even more so, recognize those consent issues is propagating rape culture. A bit like Twilight - those of us who already know better see it as a horrible abusive controlling mess, but a lot of people romanticize the hell out of it. By writing eroticized/romanticized descriptions of acts that lack consent without a frame of reference where this is noted, the lack of consent is given an air of normalcy. As much as we'd like to think everyone in fandom is a well-read feminist, etc, that is simply not the case ( ... )
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That admitted, anyone who's read my writing knows I'm attracted to issues of consent, but I ultimately try and establish that the sex/relationship IS consensual. I do love to play with the line, though, and I enjoy writers who play with it. Frogg and I disagree on this (we've known each other for a few years), but we agree to disagree.
I think it's important to remember that she's just expressing her opinion. It's her blog - she's allowed. First Amendment, remember? Some people have mentioned "kinkshaming," but what about "metashaming" or "squickshaming"? No one has to agree with her, nor is she demanding that writers agree with her. She's just expressing her ideas.
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