(Untitled)

[theladytrinity]

Eff me running

I'm already not ready for this week and now I've had a halfway-blazing row with Will over the stupidest thing. We're walking down the street this morning and in front of us I see a woman pass two men. One of the men goes "sexy! damn!" and turns around to stare at her. No response from the woman.

Response, however, from me. "OMG

Comments

[ticketsonmyself]

if a guy wears a skirt in public and a woman gives him a dirty look is it her fault

... fwa fwa whaaaaaaaat?

yeah that's DEFINITELY a derail.

as are the other derails. ugh I'm sorry. D: It can be especially hard to get infuriating stuff like that from someone you love.

I literally forgot I had an AIM account! I just signed on but it says that in a couple of days I won't be able to use my (old) version of AIM. well, I will be signed on on AIM Express - you should feel free to IM me about whatever even if I'm away. I will respond when I return!

[ticketsonmyself]

p s I was in B'more this weekend and I saw people walking around from Otakon and thought of you

[rosefyre]

Awwww, I'm on AIM a lot during the afternoon!

Also, the way a woman dresses is never an excuse for men to be pigs, though women should be aware that if they dress in skimpier clothing, men are more likely to be pigs.

[bravest_unsaid]

I feel that the second half of your statement, besides being of dubious veracity, kinda negates the first.

Let's say that we could prove a correlation between "skimpy" clothing and street harassment. And then women should be aware of it so that... so that what? So that the actions of men dictate their clothing choices? So that they can share in the responsibility of being harassed?

Men should never harass women. Full stop.

[rosefyre]

*shrugs* No, there's no excuse for men to be pigs. But men WILL be pigs. And while there's no way to avoid men being pigs, there are ways to avoid it more when you really don't want to have to deal with it. Sometimes you want men to pay attention to you, sometimes you don't, but if you KNOW how they'll react to certain outfits, you can choose whether or not you want to deal with that shit. Maybe one day in the future men won't be pigs if a woman is wearing a bikini, but for now, that's the way the world is. You definitely don't have to let men being pigs dictate your choices, but it's good to understand when men are more likely to act that way.

from Sims

[anonymous]

I'm sympathetic to Will on this one. Without commenting on clothes, what counts as harassment, etc., when people are yelled at, they get defensive. Consider.

Emi: RAGE!
Will: Gah! She's insane! Make it stop!

Emi: You know, that really bothered me...
Will: Whatever. But since this bothers her, I'll keep my mouth shut next time.
or better yet
Will: Hmm, she has a point.

Re: from Sims

[ticketsonmyself]

I know that people get defensive at yelling, but the tone argument is never ever ever a good place to go. [Also, while it's not the word choice theladytrinity indicated in her post, I for one am guaranteed to react negatively to "insane," etc. when it's used to describe something that the speaker wishes to dismiss, because that's ableist. To say that "this person is crazy" or "that person is insane" when you're really trying to debunk their arguments is to, in essence, make the statement that you're labeling them insane/crazy because to you, insane/crazy (thus, mentally ill) = person I don't have to respect or listen to. I could hardly begin to touch on all the ways in which this has terrible effects, starting with the appalling history of the treatment of the mentally ill throughout history and going on to cover the ways in which people with mental illnesses ranging from depression to bipolar disorder to many other things are told that they're making it up or that they're dangerous or that nothing they say has to be taken seriously or respected -

Re: from Sims (Sims again)

[anonymous]

Why is the tone argument not a good place to go? I'm discussing tactics, not principles. So you have a case to make. If you speak in a way that could be perceived as irrational, you increase the possibility that the person listening to you will focus on how irrational you're supposedly being (fairly or not) rather than actually listening to you. Yelling can intimidate or silence, but it can never persuade.

Re: from Sims (Sims again)

[ticketsonmyself]

Again, see Derailing for Dummies, in particular this. Also this, especially the last half of the_willow's post.

Also, from a post by