General Feelingsjanus_incantusNovember 13 2006, 00:28:06 UTC
I haden't realised on previous reads how emotionally powerful chapter this is. In a short, passing moment, Harry's whole life is turned upside-down and we see his feelings go from apathy through confusion and disbelief to anxiety and enthusiasm.
I mentioned in my opening statement that I'd be looking into Hagrid more carefully. Indeed, behind a good-humoured character there seems to be an important informant. Most of the things Hagrid says are not accurate, but they tend to always be partially true. So Hagrid's word seems to give us the correct direction, but he is not completely reliable in details.
Apart from the third person limited omniscient narrator (Harry Filter), we seem to have a 'Hagrid Bias', created by the early chapters of Philosopher's Stone, which reinforces the 'Harry Filter'. It is Hagrid who presents an idealised view on Harry's parents. It is Hagrid who makes it clear to Harry (and the reader) that he is famous. And it is Hagrid who firt introduces the idea of the very dark nature of Slytherin House (though that is in the next chapter).
Re: Hagridpan_alchemistNovember 29 2006, 15:37:08 UTC
Well... yes. Hagrid does generalise awfully. But the fact that we know that means that Harry knows that too (the 'filter').
And just a note on Hagrid giving "an idealised view on Harry's parents". Anyone who is going to tell a child that their parents are anything less than good, is rather heartless. And heartless is one thing we know Hagrid isn't. It is also very difficult to look at people you admire or like and see their flaws.
Voldy & the wizarding world & AKjanus_incantusNovember 13 2006, 01:20:40 UTC
Ok, that was a bit complicated title to basically refer to Godric's Hollow events.
Hagrid says (boldings mine): Some say he died. Codswallop, in my opinion. Dunno if he had enough human left in him to die. Some say he's still out there, bidin' his time, like, but I don't believe it. People who was on his side came back ter ours. Some of 'em came outta kinda trances. Don' reckon they could've done if he was comin' back. Most of us reckon he's still out there somewhere but lost his powers. ...
I find many interesting points in these few sentences.
1) Did Hagrid know about horcruces? Or was it pure coincidence and guesswork he thought there was not enough human left in Voldemort to die? How much does he actually know and what will that imply to the plot in book 7?
2) This reinforces point #1; It doesn't seem plausible that Hagrid wouldn't know about imperitus curse. However, it's probably a subject he thinks he shouldn't talk to Harry, so he uses a vague expression 'kind of trances' instead. This seems to suggest he is not a
( ... )
Re: Voldy & the wizarding world & AKdacian_goddessNovember 16 2006, 20:03:07 UTC
Those really are very interesting points - I especially like the emphasis you placed on "most of us"; at first read, you'd imagine Hagrid in fact refers to the general public - particularly since we learned when he got Harry away from the Dursleys, that Hagrid's technically not supposed to do magic. That would tend to give the reader the impression that Hagrid is representative of the "average Joe", as it were - just your unschooled groundskeeper, a variable representative of the mediocrity. Of course, in hindsight, we have Hagrid as a very perceptive individual, and an intensely loyal one, to boot. The meaning of most of us could be that Hagrid is referring, not to the Order, but to Dumbledore's most loyal.
Re: Voldy & the wizarding world & AKjanus_incantusNovember 17 2006, 09:46:07 UTC
Wow, our first 'external' commentator! You are hereby awarded a diploma... here we go.
I'm also inclined to think that Hagrid is referred to Dumbledore's 'most loyal'. It's almost scary to note that the reader cannot safely disregard even the most minor details; they can get whole new meanings in the later books.
PS. I added you to my frieds list, too, along with those who have signed in as 'followers' of this community.
Re: Voldy & the wizarding world & AKpan_alchemistNovember 29 2006, 15:23:42 UTC
Very interesting.
I think you guys have covered most of the plausible answers.
I would like to point out the use of the word 'human'. There are many interesting references to 'being human' throughout the books. I think we should keep an eye out for them.
4) How did the Godric's Hollow get blasted? The AK course didn't seem to make any harm to Riddle House, nor were any notable side effects observable when Cedric was killed. The spell did hit the statue in the Ministru in OotP (IRC), but even then the harm was nothing close to complete destruction. As Voldemor was hardly in his powers after the spell had rebounded, this seems to support the theory that there was a fifth person present.
The Dursleyspan_alchemistNovember 29 2006, 15:43:48 UTC
1) An observation.
When Hagrid came, Petunia and Vernon didn't make any move to protect Harry. They warned Dudders against eating anything Hagrid gave him, but had no objection letting Harry eat it.
2) Petunia
Fandom specualtion has it that Petunia was jealous of Lily. I suppose her speech here definitely could support that.
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Apart from the third person limited omniscient narrator (Harry Filter), we seem to have a 'Hagrid Bias', created by the early chapters of Philosopher's Stone, which reinforces the 'Harry Filter'. It is Hagrid who presents an idealised view on Harry's parents. It is Hagrid who makes it clear to Harry (and the reader) that he is famous. And it is Hagrid who firt introduces the idea of the very dark nature of Slytherin House (though that is in the next chapter).
Reply
And just a note on Hagrid giving "an idealised view on Harry's parents". Anyone who is going to tell a child that their parents are anything less than good, is rather heartless. And heartless is one thing we know Hagrid isn't. It is also very difficult to look at people you admire or like and see their flaws.
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"Never insult Albus Dumbledore in front of me."
Vernon got a much bigger reaction from Hagrid after insulting Dumbledore than he did after, in my opinion, a much more nasty attack on the Potters.
Why is Hagrid so devoted to Dumbledore? Is it because Dumbledore didn't think he opened the Chamber of Secrets?
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Hagrid says (boldings mine): Some say he died. Codswallop, in my opinion. Dunno if he had enough human left in him to die. Some say he's still out there, bidin' his time, like, but I don't believe it. People who was on his side came back ter ours. Some of 'em came outta kinda trances. Don' reckon they could've done if he was comin' back. Most of us reckon he's still out there somewhere but lost his powers. ...
I find many interesting points in these few sentences.
1) Did Hagrid know about horcruces? Or was it pure coincidence and guesswork he thought there was not enough human left in Voldemort to die? How much does he actually know and what will that imply to the plot in book 7?
2) This reinforces point #1; It doesn't seem plausible that Hagrid wouldn't know about imperitus curse. However, it's probably a subject he thinks he shouldn't talk to Harry, so he uses a vague expression 'kind of trances' instead. This seems to suggest he is not a ( ... )
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*p.s. I go by MysticAngel on HPN ;-)*
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I'm also inclined to think that Hagrid is referred to Dumbledore's 'most loyal'. It's almost scary to note that the reader cannot safely disregard even the most minor details; they can get whole new meanings in the later books.
PS. I added you to my frieds list, too, along with those who have signed in as 'followers' of this community.
Reply
I think you guys have covered most of the plausible answers.
I would like to point out the use of the word 'human'. There are many interesting references to 'being human' throughout the books. I think we should keep an eye out for them.
Reply
4) How did the Godric's Hollow get blasted? The AK course didn't seem to make any harm to Riddle House, nor were any notable side effects observable when Cedric was killed. The spell did hit the statue in the Ministru in OotP (IRC), but even then the harm was nothing close to complete destruction. As Voldemor was hardly in his powers after the spell had rebounded, this seems to support the theory that there was a fifth person present.
Reply
Reply
When Hagrid came, Petunia and Vernon didn't make any move to protect Harry. They warned Dudders against eating anything Hagrid gave him, but had no objection letting Harry eat it.
2) Petunia
Fandom specualtion has it that Petunia was jealous of Lily. I suppose her speech here definitely could support that.
Reply
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