jihad: war against the infidel

[tim_maroney]

CNN radio is repeating a short piece claiming that "jihad" does not mean "holy war" and that Islam is a peaceful religion. I have no doubt that the numerous media reports to this effect are well-meaning and meant to counter rampant and spreading anti-Muslim bigotry. Nor do I have any desire to provide ammunition to those who ignorantly defame Islam

Comments

[phygelus]

In my experience, the "defensive" interpretation of jihad is more mainstream among contemporary Muslims than you or Pipes admit, and is roughly similar to the "just war" theory of Christianity, with obvious differences. I find it curious that Pipes goes into so little detail on this particular facet of his subject, though my impression is he expects his audience to be very familiar with the "defensive" jihad.
I'd never even heard of the wholly spiritualized version before that I can clearly remember, or at least had entirely associated it with Sufism, but then I've never hung out with carefully sanitized Muslims.

[tim_maroney]

The Western Muslims I've known have been extremely defensive about their faith.

[phygelus]

I'm not talking about Westerners. Jihad is commonly understood today among mainstream Muslims (neither radicals nor academics nor the Sufis that occultists adore) to mean coming to the military defense of Muslims who are being oppressed for their religion. The historical spreading-Islam-by-the-sword interpretation is rightly dismissed as both unrealistic in the modern world and secondary to peaceful means of proselytizing.

The Muslim question of whether jihad is lawful is analogous to the Christian question of whether a war is just. Is there a similar question, potentially even, in the theology of the Thelemic holy war?

Does Osama mean defending the faith against the infidel, or is he out to convert us by the sword? I don't know.

[phygelus]

erm, I keep forgetting that conversion-by-the-sword is a misleading description of jihad, so let me rephrase that: "Does Osama mean defending his religion against oppression by the infidel, or is he out to bring us under Muslim rule? I don't know." Also above, for clarity, please read in "...whether a particular call for jihad is lawful..."

In Saddam's case, though, I think a case can be made here that he's simply saying the military defense of his regime in Iraq is lawful under the religion of his people. Any leader in his situation can be expected to say the equivalent.

Say, what are the "just war" theorists saying about our current invasion of Iraq? I haven't checked yet.

[deggial]

exactly riordan.

"The great jihad is the one against the ego in Islam. It's a shame more Muslims focus on the lesser jihad than the greater."

MORE? where do you get your statistics?

D.

[tim_maroney]

The great jihad is the one against the ego in Islam.

Can you point me to specific Hadith on that?

[deggial]

"jihad" does traditionally mean a holy war "

jihad has two applications.

1.)social war against injustice.
2.)personal spiritual war against ungodliness within oneself.

99.9% of muslims view #2 as the one that is most important.

the "primary meaning" as you termed it is one ONLY held by extremists. Look at fundy Christians and think about how they talk and how rediculous THEY look.

The most empty can rattles the loudest.

as far as islam not being a peaceful religion i beg you to tell me one religion/ie. culture that has a perfect "peacekeeping" record.

Love
D.

[cuvalwen]

Hi. I found your website when looking up some Crowley texts, and followed the link to your journal

Meaning of Jihad

[frater_jihad]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law