Comments | total_alias: Oz = Elliot??? Yes, Yes he does

total_alias

Oz = Elliot??? Yes, Yes he does

Apr 12, 2011 14:36

Hello there! I'm being a dork and analyzing PH again! :D
Well, for the most part I'm analyzing the relationships between Elliot & Leo and Oz & Gilbert. As far as I can see, they're so similar it's uncanny, for more reasons than just the master&servant relationship. Also, I had to scale the images a bit to conserve space and make them easier to ( Read more... )

analysis, manga, pandora hearts

Comments 34

gommyommy April 13 2011, 04:50:40 UTC

Our beloved mangaka likes yandere characters, mm? I see the similarities you're pointing out and hope we see a different fate for Oz and crew than simply a recreating of the past/present tragedies. I've noticed we get a lot of parallels and similarities in this story, but they are not exactly the same. If anything PH seems to be an exploration of certain themes, exposing variations on those themes. The word 'variations' is key. Because Oz is not Elliot, despite his similarities, and Leo is not really truly Glen. So I think we will see echoes and parallels, but not exact mirrorings.

And if that made sense to you, you are more awake than I am!

I was waiting for you to show that Jack/Oz welcoming hand out! And don't forget when Gil makes the same gesture toward Oz in...ch 54 or so? I took it as symbolic of Gilbert finally changing...becoming someone who can smile, welcome and support others.

total_alias April 13 2011, 05:10:00 UTC

I think you're absolutely right. Maybe that's why I got so confused at the end. I was only drawing parallels and wasn't taking into account the fact that there would be huge differences along with them. Of course I knew this, it just somehow missed my analysis this morning. XD ( ... )

gommyommy April 13 2011, 05:36:13 UTC

If PH is only going to be 20 vols like Jun Mochizuki guesstimated in that French interview, then PH is already two-thirds over!

I am surprised you forgot about Gilbert's hand in that scene! That's not like you to forget a Gilbert moment :)

total_alias April 13 2011, 06:07:34 UTC

I FORGET NO GILBERT MOMENTS WHAT IS THIS MADNESS.

Gaaaah!! What? I never heard about this estimate?! You make my soul cry! TAT I was just estimating on Oz's seal!

I WANT PH TO LAST FOREVERRRR!!!!!

DDDDDDDDDDDDD;

I want to cry now!

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twistedsama April 13 2011, 13:02:25 UTC

I love when people overthing PH like me fufufu ( ... )

total_alias April 13 2011, 16:52:50 UTC

Oh, to clear things up, when I said that Oz = Jack, I was trying to simplify the parallels I was drawing. Not necessarily saying that they are one in the same. As a matter of fact, I think Oz was alive and kickin' 100 years ago before the Tragedy. And I must say, not only does your theory help mine, but it makes loads of sense. Did you read my discussion last chapter? Because we had big conversations about Oz and Alice and Sabrie and all that \currently experiencing dejavu\ XD ( ... )

a745 April 13 2011, 22:38:44 UTC

I just had to reply about this... Now that you mention it, the whole Elli is the real Oz Vessalius makes sense O_o. Aside from the points you mentioned, there was also the time that Zai went to get Elli, completely shunning Oz during the encounter. I mean, it's been getting to me why Zai and Duke Nightray are so close. Aren't Nightrays and Vessalius people supposed to be enemies? Then why, of all people, would Duke Nightray give an alibi for Zai during Oz's coming-of-age ceremony? It makes so much sense it's scary O_O;;;

twistedsama April 13 2011, 13:07:40 UTC

And Ada defending Elliot, with such gentle feelings...
Does seem like what a sister would do uncounciously. Same as calling his name so casually.

GAH! I just think that all those things can't be just casual, Jun must've done that on purpose! EVEN THE ELLIOTXCAT OMAKE GODDAMMIT!

total_alias April 13 2011, 16:57:34 UTC

Ooh, good point... But that made me remember something in your earlier comment that I didn't respond to: Zai totally killed his wife, but it wasn't immediately after Oz's birth/arrival. Ada still had to be born, after all. There must have been some reason for her to keep quiet for the time being...

...I went to friend you but we're already friends.. wtf... o_o

twistedsama April 13 2011, 17:16:10 UTC

Hmm you have a point there, but what I mean is, I don't see Reo as dark as I see Glen. There's still light in him, he's not totally corrupted. Well, there should be differences, or otherwise that'd be boring, huh? Btw, I'm still wondering where did Reo come from. He's an orphan right, but were his parents contractors? What if he IS Glen, not only as a new body. His looks are really similar...

I'll go to read your comments on retrace 59 then...
I never use LJ, but commenting surely is fun!

I wonder why Zai had another child...
It just seems weird to me. And how did the rumor that the Nightrays killed his wife spread? Was it on purpose?

LOL! I might have added you a while ago, but forgot. As I said, I don't use LJ at all.

total_alias April 13 2011, 17:21:22 UTC

True. He's definitely not as dark and eeeeviiillll as Glen, but he's been rejecting Glen all this time, hasn't he? So of course he's been trying very hard not to be like him in whatever way that he could. But my question now is: whether or not he was able to continue rejecting Glen even after he accepted him to save Elliot. Has he now adopted Glen's consciousness (while still retaining his own, Glen mentioned that), or is he still battling that inner entity?

The Nightrays were totally framed. They were already dark and shadowy, the perfect candidates for a murder.

twistedsama April 13 2011, 17:31:14 UTC

I think there's 2 options:

1) He won't turn into the real Glen until the last 2 stones are broken.

2)Now that Elliot's gone, he might go insane and do whatever it takes to save him, and he might end up agreeing to surrender to Glen.

No doubt they are the perfect candidates but, was Zai behind making them the culprits? Just to cover up his alliance with the Nightray duke?

total_alias April 13 2011, 18:18:40 UTC

I don't think that Leo "turning into Glen" is the point. Glen told Jack that each Glen is separate, they aren't the person in any way, they just carry Glen's consciousness. He's not going to transform into Glen or anything like that. He'll still be Leo, with Leo's brain, even, he'll just have Glen's consciousness inside of him.

#2 is so probable. But I kind of hope that won't happen. I also would very much like to know how Oz will react, since he's known for going batshit crazy over stuff.

Probably. I can't see him having any more reasons than that. To be honest, Zai doesn't strike me as devious or even smart. I think he just did what the Baskervilles told him to do (receiving whatever it is that he really wants in return), it's their master plan, after all.

ice_flow April 14 2011, 08:46:05 UTC

lol, it's perfectly good logic. I've been stewing about the idea that since Leo = Glen, then Elliot MUST be Lacie...he even dies, see? lol, glad someone else also thought of it...thought I was going crazy for a long while here, hahaha

although, the situation about Oz and Gil...now that you point it out, yeah, it seems likely that Oz isn't going to survive the end...T_T....nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *sobs* but Oz has also been going all B-Rabbit on everyone too....and Alice is turning human....yet another similarity with Elliot....lol.....

total_alias April 14 2011, 17:39:14 UTC

I hope MochiJun-sensei works some magic and lets Oz survive at the end. I don't know what I'll do if he dies! TAT *sobs with you*
That's something to pay attention to at the series goes on. I wonder what will happen if oz becomes 100% chain and Alice becomes human? Will she become his contractor? Will the contract just naturally break? Because, if they switch, then it will become really likely that one or both of them will end up in the Abyss...

ice_flow April 15 2011, 00:39:05 UTC

Alice will probably remain, I'd think...and not as his contractor.....Oz's probably gonna end up in the abyss....Alyss can resist morbidly dragging him in as her pet anyways...I'm trying to figure out HOW and WHY Oz can access her powers...lol....Oz will likely get dragged there...but I just KNOW Gil has to be connected somehow...and I forgot why he managed to get that contract with Raven....*pause* wait, maybe its cause he's part of the Tragedy of Sablier that Raven agreed....hmm....

total_alias April 15 2011, 03:00:13 UTC

It's because Gil was promised Raven 100 years ago. Glen's chains were the four dark-winged birds, right? Then he contracts one. Gil was supposed to be the next Glen before the Tragedy, and he was supposed to make a contract with Raven. It's almost like being betrothed (now that's a funny concept). Once the promise was made, Raven couldn't and wouldn't form a contract with anyone else. But he also wouldn't make a contract with Gil until he was ready to handle such a powerful chain.

Oz going into the Abyss is more or less inevitable at this point. I'm pretty sure that it's going to happen. Though when/how/why and what happens when he gets there is the real question. Note: this is totally twistedsama's idea, not mine: Maybe when Oz goes into the Abyss, Alyss lets him out and he lands in Sabrie before the Tragedy? How likely is this, eh? After all, its not really Oz that Alyss wants, but Alice. She wants Jack, too, of course. Ah, that's the thing. But there's no way that Sensei would end the series with Oz in the Abyss. Somehow he'll get out, for ( ... )

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