Well: (superlongentry)

Apr 27, 2009 11:21




My dear Roxie, you have legitimate concerns.
There is one other (semi-regularly maintained) teleiophile's journal, on wordpress (perhaps you've seen it?) written by a girl, who lives somewhere in Southeast Asia, I think. I commented on one of her entries recently.
Anyway, it's:
http://teleiophilia.wordpress.com/
Click on "Teleiophilia KnowHow" near the top. 
And the second comment down is posted (coincidentally) by a guy named Brian, who has a young girlfriend - it's really a beautiful and enlightening comment, you should read it. In one of the last paragraphs he addresses the question of aging and mortality; I think it's a good way to look at it - you must accept that if you get long-term involved with anyone much older than you, if you stay with them, you will probably see them die. But any one of us can die at any time, and so while we are alive we should do what makes us happy.
One night I was suddenly struck with the realization. If I continue to know James for 10 or 20 or maybe 30 more years, I will be attending his funeral. I will be less than the age he is now when he is likely to die. It made me tear up for a moment - at some point this wonderful man will no longer exist in this world. Reading an email he wrote to me - he's fond of writing me lengthy emails - I said to myself "Someday, likely before I do, you will die. And these sweet words on this screen will be all I have left of you."
But I have always been fond of: "It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all." And James once said to me, "Where some men have fantasies, I have memories." Sure, you can avoid the pain of loss if you never gain anything in the first place, but what kind of life is that? James has said to me "For all good things, we pay a price - we don't get to know in advance what the price will be, only that it must be paid" Of course, he was referring to things in general, but in this case, if I go on indefinitely with him, I know what the ultimate price will be. But for all the joy he has given me, and can continue to give me in the future, I am willing to pay it.

But here is where I think your situation and mine differ. James and I made an agreement, before we got involved in this; while I was still with Michael - he had only one demand and expectation of our relationship: someday it (the romance, the flattery, the sex) will end, whether by death or just having run its course; when it does, please, my dear Ms. K. Sophia, let us remain friends - even if he dies before we end it, please think of him as a friend, even in death.
Perhaps I had not articulated it clearly before: our situation is one of only semi-commitment, because we both realize the realistic constraints on it. He and I will never marry each other, never have children, never buy a house or split bills together - we will never commit to those aspects of a "normal" relationship; it's hardly possible to expect that. Though I try not to think about it, we are not even committed to stay in our current situation - he or I could leave at any time, for any reason, so we've agreed. Any time I mention any other male (be it a professor or a 20-year-old doofhead), he asks, "Do I have any competition yet?" Of course he doesn't - but he acknowledges that someday I may leave him; although at present I can't think of any reason why I would. And he says perhaps 20 times more frequently than he needs to, that he is very very pleased with our situation. And so we continue on this way.
But in all wiry, gritty, basic truth, the one and only thing we are committed to is friendship.

I don't know if it's possible to treat a relationship with an older man the same way you would with a BMA. It's not a conventional situation, it can't be a conventional relationship. Those who I've seen attempt to normalize it, put it in some easily-understood framework (celebrities and such) always fuck it up.
In theory, and if you're willing, you could go on with Brian, or Mark, or perhaps some other gentleman, until he dies. Taking care of him, being with him until the very end. But that takes a lot of will and commitment and devotion - and while you may be more than ready to give that (James also said to me once, "Love is an act, not a feeling"), you should never do it because you feel enslaved or obligated to - otherwise you would begin to resent said Older Gentleman. If you want to devote yourself to that extent, you must fully realize what that means and accept it; don't let it creep up on you one day.
If you ever get involved with Brian, or Mark, or any other gentleman, I think the best way to handle it is to set out expectations and rules first thing off. Since it's not conventional or normal, you can't expect conventional/normal rules to apply: the engagement, the marriage, the house with the white-picket fence, the dog and the four kids. Find out what he wants, and what you want, and what you both expect, and if Event A happens, what Consequence B will be. So that there is no misunderstanding.

I can't give you instructions on what you should do if you get with Brian. If Brian wants someone to commit to and grow old with, and you are not sure what you would do, and you don't feel you have the experience -
My honest advice, suggestion; what I urge you and beseech you to do, is GET experience before you make commitments. This may sound difficult to swallow, but if Brian wants something that you don't feel ready to give yet, I don't know if you should get involved with him straight off. That's not to say NEVER - but, if I may sound like a marketing campaign for just a minute, "Try Before You Buy" - try other gentlemen first. See if you like it. See what turns you on and off. See if you like them making constant references to things you've never heard of (James randomly sings the verses to songs from various Gilbert and Sullivan plays - none of which I've ever seen, but he keeps promising to bring a tape of "The Pirates of Penzance" to my house.) Become an educated consumer, that way you don't regret anything.

Of course, this is the kind of advice I give, and it's skewed towards my perspective. Personally, I have no desire to get married or have children. I've never wanted a normal relationship - so I can't address with fairness the possible concern of you wanting a "normal" relationship in the far future (well, by the time you're 30-40-50, you'll be as old as those we pine for now, so I suppose it will be "normal" - and adopt kids maybe?) I have very little maternal instinct (the little I have manifests itself towards my cat),  and so I think it's safe to say I will be deaf to my biological clock's ticking. I can't advise fairly on it.
The possibility exists for me to commit to one person for the rest of my life, but at this point I would feel condemned if I had to do such a thing - there are still so many things for me to see and do, so many gentlemen down the road I could obsess over and love and fuck. At this point I'm happy with James, and it's possible I could be for a long time. But neither he nor I are bound to it.
When one of my ex-boyfriend BMAs, who I am still dear friends with (he's like a brother to me now), told me he was getting married at the tender age of 20 (to a girl who is 25 who he has only known for a few months), I told him he was crazy. Of course, it didn't matter what I said, because he got married on February 24th of this year anyway. When I talk to him, he is the happiest guy on the planet, and I am happy for him - but my pessimistic side expects him to get divorced soon enough. Perhaps it is a reflection of me and myself - at this point I couldn't contemplate long-term commitment, let alone a life-commitment like marriage. But all Troy (that's his name) has ever wanted is a girl to settle down with, and the poor sweet thing, he falls so in love that he's willing to do anything for her. He is in England right now (he's in the Air Force), and his girlfriend (wife) is in the Philippines, waiting to get authorization to come live with him - while this arrangement is tolerable to him for the time being (he's in love!), I would find it unbearable and get fed up sooner than later.
What can I say? I write in pencil 99% of the time. I'm not big on long-term commitments - not right now anyway. I can't be like Tracy from Manhattan and be so sure that Isaac is the one for me forever, and disregard his urging that I should go have fun because I'm young. It's just where I'm at right now - so all my advice to my fellows (boys, girls, fellow teleiophiles), is to have fun first. What I'm doing now is my version of fun.
And so you may think that my advice is too pragmatic, too unromantic - that's fine. But if you're really as unsure as this, I highly suggest you take it to heart. You'll never know for sure until you try.

As for "all the physical, intimate stuff" - well, yes, there are significant differences. Mostly for the better, in my opinion.
Of course nothing can inform you with the same effectiveness as experience can, but perhaps I can pass on some knowledge:
After fantasizing for years, I was suddenly hit with the realization that "Oh my God, this can actually happen" when I got numerous replies to my depraved Craigslist ad. While it was suddenly very liberating and exciting, it was also scary as hell. It was something I'd never done before - what if I was raped and killed? What if I got a disease or got pregnant? What if I... just didn't like it?
Well, there are precautions to take, of course, to ensure against all the dangerous things (always meet in a public place with lots of people around, always tell someone where you're going and when you expect to be back, always talk with the gentleman first about concerns about diseases and babies...) But the honest truth is that you won't know if you like it until you try it.

I once wrote a rather crappy story, when I was 15 or 16, that was thinly veiled as fiction, but was really just prurient wishful thinking about my calculus teacher, Mr. M. B. One part I was proud of, though, was a description of my fantasy first-kiss with him, in which I described what I imagined it would be like - his lips thin and his mouth obviously tasting like coffee (for he has an addiction to it.) But his cheeks, his face - I wrote about the lines in it, the small scars and nicks from years and years of shaving, and yes - the day-old, graying stubble.
Also when I was 15-16, I was fiercely into Harry Potter; more specifically, Snape. And waiting for the next book to come out (because goddamnit, JKR has to go on vacation!), my now-roommate Kelly and I would satisfy our cravings by reading fanfiction (she still does, for other fandoms, I'm not so much into it anymore). And some were good, and some were bad - but what I hated above all else was that everyone who wrote a Snape-romance fic would idealize him in some way, try to make it seem more acceptable for Hermione, or some other young Hogwarts lady-student, to be with him - oh, his hair, it wasn't REALLY greasy, it was secretly silky and smooth! and he isn't REALLY snarky and bitter, he just seems that way! he isn't REALLY 37, there was a rip in the time-space continuum that...
NO, GODDAMNIT, NO.
Kelly and I co-wrote a prurient-wishful-thinking fic, in which there were original characters (based on us, of course) - and while we look back on it and go, "Oh my God, what the fuck were we thinking?", I like to credit myself for having been faithful to canon-Snape. If he were going to have an illegal relationship with an underage student - Goddamn it, THIS was how he was going to do it! No flowers! No candlelit dinners! No marriage proposals! MOAR LIEK LOTS OF SECRET, DIRTY, PARANOID SEX AND LOTS OF ANGRY, SNARKY, PARANOID FIGHTS.
....What was the point I was trying to make here?
The point is that you must have realistic expectations.

What was I expecting when I first went to the coffee shop to meet Michael and have sex with an old (well, 53) man for the first time?
I was expecting something better than what a BMA could offer - but other than that, I really didn't know.
Yet after we were finished that night, and I laid there in bed with him, I looked at his face and was surprised to find slight wrinkles there - lines around his mouth, crow's-feet on his eyes; a wrinkle on his earlobe, for God's sake! It was surprising because I had never laid with someone who had wrinkles before - the last time I had had sex was when I was 15, with someone who was 16 (Troy), who STILL has a baby's face. But I stroked Michael's face, and the rest of his body - I thought to myself, "So this is what a middle-aged man feels like?" And I liked it.
That's something you'll have to experience for yourself.

Of course there are other differences, besides skin texture, that, although they're quite personal details, I feel are worth talking about for education's sake.
No exaggeration, the sex is better. Of course, you may not be able to compare it given your situation - but older men are more considerate, more knowledgeable - more of their goal is to please their partner than to please themselves. They're "over it". Of course there are some scummy ones who will want to fuck you because they're drooling perverts who fap to loli pr0n all day, with no consideration for you - and you should avoid those because they're poor bastards who have never moved out of their parents' basement - but any real man you get with, if you articulate that you want them to please you, because no one else ever has, they'll be more than up to the challenge.
The personal details being: of course James always satisfies me. But more often than not, he doesn't hit his high point. At first, I thought there was something wrong, something I was doing, or failing to do - he reassured me, it's not my fault, and it's probably because, well, he's 57. His greatest joy, he said, came from having the ability to satisfy me - it's an ego boost. And he also said, when he's done once, he's done for the night - so it's probably better for me if he has to make me come five or six times before he comes once. And when he does, it's a pretty good one: "I'd rather have one like that than half a dozen ordinary ones."
Whereas a BMA would come five or six times, but come so fast that I never had the opportunity to even warm up for just one.
So that's one difference (I can't think of any other ones right now...), and depending how you look at it, it could be good or bad, but James and I have channeled it into being a good thing.

So, my dear girl, 18 is a few months away for you, and you have the world at your feet. Brian or no Brian, you can charm the trouser socks off of any fine gentleman you choose, and you have so much you can see and do and learn - there's no need to get serious yet. One stepping stone at a time, otherwise you'll fall in the water.

sex, philosophical, sexual advice, sexual health, relationships

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