A response regarding Martha and the Doctor in s3
As I was one of those espousing the basic position that was commented on, I think, I would like to clarify that position and reply to that post.
First, I would like to say that although I currently do not like Rose (as I said previously, series 2 ruined her for me), that has nothing whatsoever to do with my opinion of the quality of the Doctor-Martha relationship in series 3. Honestly and truly, the two are separate things as far as I am concerned - related, but separate.
I do agree that the Doctor loved Rose, and that it was natural and good for him to have done so - he was traumatised, isolated, lonely and in need of a connection when he met her, and she was a decent person and a good friend to him. (At the very least I think we can both agree on that.) Then he lost her suddenly and unexpectedly, after only having her for a short while. After that, he met Donna, who shocked him out of his stupor; she couldn't handle his being so close to the edge emotionally, but told him he needed to find someone, and he knew she was right. And so, after he met Martha, he invited her to join him.
The Doctor was in an anguished and emotionally precarious place. Was Martha brilliant? Yes - and he knew it, he said so himself in the first episode. Was he intrigued by her? Probably at least a little, or he would have found someone else to travel with him. Was he ready to fall equally (whatever that might have meant) in love with her as he had Rose? Of course not; he also said that in the first episode and she accepted his feelings. All very realistic. In fact, his behavior is quite realistic for the majority of the season - not subtle (each Rose mention comes seemingly from nowhere - except in the Daleks episode, obviously they would remind him of both her and Gallifrey), or very well handled in my opinion (they give us so little evidence of a friendship with, or even a consistent basic level of respect for Martha after about episode 7 that the Rose references feel even more overdone), but up until about Human Nature, I could see how their relationship was simply being handled differently than I would like though not necessarily poorly. I can even see the Doctor as a human falling in love with Joan (although I didn't really like her character either), as she was sort of similar to an older Rose and also subconsciously he was probably still ambivalent towards Martha but looking to recapture love. And maybe he asked her to come along afterwards because he didn't quite want to let that go. But the turning point for me, was that Martha has put up with all of his crap (including when he was human) up to this point, but when she offers to speak to Joan he snaps at her. Really? Haven't we moved past that yet? 9 episodes into the series? He does it again in Blink, in the Easter Egg. She is obviously being playful, and he rebukes her without a hint of a smile on his face. At the end of the episode he's just ignoring her outright. Next in Utopia, we progress to him taking out his anger on her (after she mentions the fob watch). He's still snapping at her in Sound of Drums. Is she going on about things she doesn't have a clue about? Yes. After all they've been through, can't he find even the self control to speak civilly to her? Apparently not. He totally disregards the destruction of her flat and the danger her family is in until the end of the episode - and his insensitivity with the remark about fancying someone who doesn't know you exist speaks volumes about his lack of regard for her feelings. Ok. Now, on the other hand, the Doctor's arch-nemesis has just returned, he's been angsty all season, Jack has just reminded him of how he lost Rose, and Martha's frustration with his always mentioning Rose (who we've never heard him talk about apart from name-dropping, and so can assume she knows little to nothing about) and his jerkishness towards her finally erupted in the previous episode. Maybe he is reacting to all of that and regressing in his treatment of her. Again. Ok. Last of the Timelords, final episode of the series: Martha saves the world, swallows one final Rose put-down by the Master who's trying to taunt her, and decides to leave because a) her family needs her and b) she needs to move on from her rocky relationship with the Doctor. She's had a year to think over things and so has he. By this point, surely he sees "the real Martha" (although he's been complimenting, and opening up to, and trusting, and relying on her all season). Yet, when she says to him "I spent a lot of time with you thinking I was second best", he says nothing. Do I expect him to say "you weren't"? It would be nice, but no I don't. To him, she probably was at least half of the time. However, I think "Sorry." was called for at least as a sign that he valued her friendship, or, was actually sorry. She says, "You know what - I am good." and laughs it off - and he laughs it off with her. Fine. Could he not have at least added "Yes, you are." to that laugh, and finally deigned to reassure her that he does think she's at least brilliant (which he's been saying to just about everyone else all series long) even if he doesn't "love" her? Couldn't he finally have considered her feelings enough to acknowledge that, out of a basic appreciation have resulted from all that she had done for him (which he had ample time to mull over during The Year)? Nope. Ok. Maybe he is still suffering from "selfish heartache" and can't lift himself out of it enough to verbalize any of these things when she's says goodbye. Really? Because about ten minutes later, he's all over Astrid in the Christmas special, flirting with her about what he looks like when he wakes up and being very gentlemanly and considerate. And he's just met her. Where's the angst? Oh, it was *only* for Martha. Even in Sontaran Stratagem, when they have a private conversation, he is very accusatory towards her about a job he got her, unforgiving about her tolerance of the military, and completely ungracious about what he put her through while she was still traveling with him. Meanwhile, she does nothing but justify herself to him and try to appease him when she stands up for herself - why should she even have to stand up for herself? Finally, after being mollified, he "approves" - really? The Doctor admitted he screwed up with Martha (who knows what he meant when he made that admission, but admit it he did) in Partners in Crime, yet when he finally sees her and gets the chance to behave decently towards her - even if he won't acknowledge past mistakes - and what does he do? He behaves like a jerk, yet again. And yes, it is still restricted to his relationship with Martha - the Doctor talks to Donna a few minutes later, and when he thinks she is leaving, is full of praises for...who knows what, she saved his life apparently, but I've seen no literal evidence of that and little emotional evidence - it's only been 3 episodes, after all. By now, I think, it has been more than "a while" and though he still may not be ready to "love" again (although he seems to be starting to love Donna), he does at least seem to be in a place where he can treat people decently and rein in his grief. Yet to Martha, he is still a jerk.
His behavior towards Martha has been extreme, the Rose references were obtrusive to the storylines and overdone, and his jerkishness towards Martha has dragged out beyond any reasonable length of time. The script was written that way, and it is bad writing and poor treatment of Martha's character.
I agree that Martha's love for the Doctor in itself is not an attack on the character - it's perfectly reasonable, I'm sure many a girl would fall for him if he existed (and they met him, much less travelled with him). I also agree that it in itself is not a sign that she is inferior to Rose. I do think that it was poorly handled - although the idea was realistic, the Doctor's poor treatment of her, the minimal evidence of even mutual respect, and few moments of positive interaction made her feelings seem more superficial and impulsive; on the other hand, those positive moments that we did see were quite powerful - as powerful as any we saw over the previous 2 series combined, I would say (the conversation about Gallifrey, and the possessed Doctor's admission of fear and attempted explanation of regeneration come to mind) which suggests some sort of deep connection (if not bond) which might have nurtured said feelings - this contradiction is also bad writing. No other Doctor-companion relationship suffered from such a lack of attention and seemingly care/effort - not even Mickey's. While that does not show that the writers value Rose more than other companions, it does show me that they - or Russell who is likely responsible for character arcs - value Martha less. Perhaps instead of saying, "I blame the writers" I should have said "I blame Russell", as that is closer to the truth.
I agree that Martha is a wonderful character; somebody came up with her, and I am glad they did, and Freema has played her beautifully. However, after her creation, she has received treatment that I believe has been negligent, and she seems to have served more as a plot agent than a main character, which as a full-time companion she should have been.
I am grateful that Russell has revived the show, and that most of it has been thoroughly enjoyable; however I dislike the treatment Martha has received and since she is both a main character and one of my favorite characters, I dislike it a lot. Having the Doctor appreciate her by the end of series 4 - effectively the end of the 3rd year he has known her - is ridiculous and entirely unsatisfactory. And if that is the route the writers/RTD follow (and no evidence to date has suggested they will do otherwise), as I said, the 10th Doctor will be ruined for me, and the cause will have been the Doctor-Martha relationship arc.
First, I would like to say that although I currently do not like Rose (as I said previously, series 2 ruined her for me), that has nothing whatsoever to do with my opinion of the quality of the Doctor-Martha relationship in series 3. Honestly and truly, the two are separate things as far as I am concerned - related, but separate.
I do agree that the Doctor loved Rose, and that it was natural and good for him to have done so - he was traumatised, isolated, lonely and in need of a connection when he met her, and she was a decent person and a good friend to him. (At the very least I think we can both agree on that.) Then he lost her suddenly and unexpectedly, after only having her for a short while. After that, he met Donna, who shocked him out of his stupor; she couldn't handle his being so close to the edge emotionally, but told him he needed to find someone, and he knew she was right. And so, after he met Martha, he invited her to join him.
The Doctor was in an anguished and emotionally precarious place. Was Martha brilliant? Yes - and he knew it, he said so himself in the first episode. Was he intrigued by her? Probably at least a little, or he would have found someone else to travel with him. Was he ready to fall equally (whatever that might have meant) in love with her as he had Rose? Of course not; he also said that in the first episode and she accepted his feelings. All very realistic. In fact, his behavior is quite realistic for the majority of the season - not subtle (each Rose mention comes seemingly from nowhere - except in the Daleks episode, obviously they would remind him of both her and Gallifrey), or very well handled in my opinion (they give us so little evidence of a friendship with, or even a consistent basic level of respect for Martha after about episode 7 that the Rose references feel even more overdone), but up until about Human Nature, I could see how their relationship was simply being handled differently than I would like though not necessarily poorly. I can even see the Doctor as a human falling in love with Joan (although I didn't really like her character either), as she was sort of similar to an older Rose and also subconsciously he was probably still ambivalent towards Martha but looking to recapture love. And maybe he asked her to come along afterwards because he didn't quite want to let that go. But the turning point for me, was that Martha has put up with all of his crap (including when he was human) up to this point, but when she offers to speak to Joan he snaps at her. Really? Haven't we moved past that yet? 9 episodes into the series? He does it again in Blink, in the Easter Egg. She is obviously being playful, and he rebukes her without a hint of a smile on his face. At the end of the episode he's just ignoring her outright. Next in Utopia, we progress to him taking out his anger on her (after she mentions the fob watch). He's still snapping at her in Sound of Drums. Is she going on about things she doesn't have a clue about? Yes. After all they've been through, can't he find even the self control to speak civilly to her? Apparently not. He totally disregards the destruction of her flat and the danger her family is in until the end of the episode - and his insensitivity with the remark about fancying someone who doesn't know you exist speaks volumes about his lack of regard for her feelings. Ok. Now, on the other hand, the Doctor's arch-nemesis has just returned, he's been angsty all season, Jack has just reminded him of how he lost Rose, and Martha's frustration with his always mentioning Rose (who we've never heard him talk about apart from name-dropping, and so can assume she knows little to nothing about) and his jerkishness towards her finally erupted in the previous episode. Maybe he is reacting to all of that and regressing in his treatment of her. Again. Ok. Last of the Timelords, final episode of the series: Martha saves the world, swallows one final Rose put-down by the Master who's trying to taunt her, and decides to leave because a) her family needs her and b) she needs to move on from her rocky relationship with the Doctor. She's had a year to think over things and so has he. By this point, surely he sees "the real Martha" (although he's been complimenting, and opening up to, and trusting, and relying on her all season). Yet, when she says to him "I spent a lot of time with you thinking I was second best", he says nothing. Do I expect him to say "you weren't"? It would be nice, but no I don't. To him, she probably was at least half of the time. However, I think "Sorry." was called for at least as a sign that he valued her friendship, or, was actually sorry. She says, "You know what - I am good." and laughs it off - and he laughs it off with her. Fine. Could he not have at least added "Yes, you are." to that laugh, and finally deigned to reassure her that he does think she's at least brilliant (which he's been saying to just about everyone else all series long) even if he doesn't "love" her? Couldn't he finally have considered her feelings enough to acknowledge that, out of a basic appreciation have resulted from all that she had done for him (which he had ample time to mull over during The Year)? Nope. Ok. Maybe he is still suffering from "selfish heartache" and can't lift himself out of it enough to verbalize any of these things when she's says goodbye. Really? Because about ten minutes later, he's all over Astrid in the Christmas special, flirting with her about what he looks like when he wakes up and being very gentlemanly and considerate. And he's just met her. Where's the angst? Oh, it was *only* for Martha. Even in Sontaran Stratagem, when they have a private conversation, he is very accusatory towards her about a job he got her, unforgiving about her tolerance of the military, and completely ungracious about what he put her through while she was still traveling with him. Meanwhile, she does nothing but justify herself to him and try to appease him when she stands up for herself - why should she even have to stand up for herself? Finally, after being mollified, he "approves" - really? The Doctor admitted he screwed up with Martha (who knows what he meant when he made that admission, but admit it he did) in Partners in Crime, yet when he finally sees her and gets the chance to behave decently towards her - even if he won't acknowledge past mistakes - and what does he do? He behaves like a jerk, yet again. And yes, it is still restricted to his relationship with Martha - the Doctor talks to Donna a few minutes later, and when he thinks she is leaving, is full of praises for...who knows what, she saved his life apparently, but I've seen no literal evidence of that and little emotional evidence - it's only been 3 episodes, after all. By now, I think, it has been more than "a while" and though he still may not be ready to "love" again (although he seems to be starting to love Donna), he does at least seem to be in a place where he can treat people decently and rein in his grief. Yet to Martha, he is still a jerk.
His behavior towards Martha has been extreme, the Rose references were obtrusive to the storylines and overdone, and his jerkishness towards Martha has dragged out beyond any reasonable length of time. The script was written that way, and it is bad writing and poor treatment of Martha's character.
I agree that Martha's love for the Doctor in itself is not an attack on the character - it's perfectly reasonable, I'm sure many a girl would fall for him if he existed (and they met him, much less travelled with him). I also agree that it in itself is not a sign that she is inferior to Rose. I do think that it was poorly handled - although the idea was realistic, the Doctor's poor treatment of her, the minimal evidence of even mutual respect, and few moments of positive interaction made her feelings seem more superficial and impulsive; on the other hand, those positive moments that we did see were quite powerful - as powerful as any we saw over the previous 2 series combined, I would say (the conversation about Gallifrey, and the possessed Doctor's admission of fear and attempted explanation of regeneration come to mind) which suggests some sort of deep connection (if not bond) which might have nurtured said feelings - this contradiction is also bad writing. No other Doctor-companion relationship suffered from such a lack of attention and seemingly care/effort - not even Mickey's. While that does not show that the writers value Rose more than other companions, it does show me that they - or Russell who is likely responsible for character arcs - value Martha less. Perhaps instead of saying, "I blame the writers" I should have said "I blame Russell", as that is closer to the truth.
I agree that Martha is a wonderful character; somebody came up with her, and I am glad they did, and Freema has played her beautifully. However, after her creation, she has received treatment that I believe has been negligent, and she seems to have served more as a plot agent than a main character, which as a full-time companion she should have been.
I am grateful that Russell has revived the show, and that most of it has been thoroughly enjoyable; however I dislike the treatment Martha has received and since she is both a main character and one of my favorite characters, I dislike it a lot. Having the Doctor appreciate her by the end of series 4 - effectively the end of the 3rd year he has known her - is ridiculous and entirely unsatisfactory. And if that is the route the writers/RTD follow (and no evidence to date has suggested they will do otherwise), as I said, the 10th Doctor will be ruined for me, and the cause will have been the Doctor-Martha relationship arc.