these sorts of things don't "just happen";

[tussah]

Right. So.

I wasn't going to actually post about this, even though I've been following this since the night before when somebody on my flist (unnamed out of respect to them) linked me to this post on journalfen which began tracking the whole discussion/wank/i'm-not-sure-what-you'd-call-it. what began in bandom as an exchange over whether or not

Comments

[pridefall]

Honestly, babe? I'm not surprised. In the least. People, and most of all the writers of this day and age, are extremely entitled, incredibly selfish, and increasingly inured assholes who are being taught -- and therefore teaching others, in their writing -- that the treatment of human beings comes secondary to their "art". Even greats like Neil Gaiman are of the mind that the reader does not enter within/into a "contract" with the writer once they pick up a piece of their work, because you know what? These words are not for you: they are me giving you art and you better be damn well pleased that I've deigned it necessary to share them with you.

More and more, I'm seeing that people think they're entitled to their readers, and their comments, and any praise they get, instead of fucking beholden to it. It's maddening, but it's part of the day and age we're in. You can't fight it without finding a way to rewire people or completely erase how they've grown up.

Shitsux.

/hugs. &hearts

[redex]

It's interesting that this has even become a debate, to me. Of course, in anime/manga fandom there is an entire genre of canon dedicated to hardcore porn, noncon, rape, abuse, etc and after six or so years it's pretty banal as far as plot devices go. No disrespect to people who have suffered from violence, it's just a fact. That said, I think it's common practice to put a warning of some sort on anything you produce - even if it's just a warning that "this is sugary-sweet fluff with no plot so skip if you don't like that sort of thing". & I guess you could say that market forces work against those who surprise their readers too often with tasteless things. There's no way to go back and punish this person for their actions, but I would expect them to be shunned in the future by anyone who was bothered by what happened. You don't have to be someone who has suffered from violence in the past to be jolted by running into a tactless rape over breakfast

[shurimon]

I'm there a few times in the Journalfen/unfunnybusiness post (as harrylovesron) and the lack of simple human compassion displayed by some of the people linked to and quoted is appalling. Perhaps not all that surprising, but it is still disgusting. You're right, it's not a simple matter of "it's just the internets/a fanfic", it's a huge display of willful ignorance and willful malice toward fellow human beings. Impertinence's post struck a powerful chord with me, and I'm glad that (the asshattery on it aside) several of the people commenting to it (and likely many more who read and did not comment) walked away with a changed attitude.

[wurwilf]

I'm sorry it took me a couple days to comment on this. The day after I made my first post on the subject, which might be the one where you saw the link to the unfunnybusiness report, I just could not deal with speaking publicly or participating in public discussions, even when I really wanted to.

I know you didn't write this specifically for my benefit, but it means a lot to me, personally, that you wrote it, and I want to thank you for having the courage to speak about this, and saying things that I couldn't say but wanted to hear.

One thing that has made me happy about this generally very painful argument is that although I have seen some friends of friends say very upsetting things, and been introduced by proxy to some truly insensitive people I hadn't previously known, everybody on my flist who has posted or commented about this has been saying, basically, "We need to listen and be compassionate to one another." So I've lost respect for a couple people I knew of, but the excellence of my actual friends has been reaffirmed