The Tempest in a Parliament

[ulbh]

Contemporary Pagans taking sides in Semantic SquabbleDefining contemporary Paganism is essentially impossible, or it would already have been done. I took a shot at it years ago during a spell of online wrangling; I thought my attempt was fairly precise, but it was also more than 50 words long with no clear way to reduce it. Since then, I have

Comments

[alfrecht]

Thank you for this--I agree with nearly all that you've said above, and had comments on this issue a few weeks ago in my own LJ (locked post, alas, because certain pagans have been in the habit of attempting to hound and troll me online).

Because I'm heavily involved in several recon movements that either have difficult backgrounds in regards to sources and survivals (Celtic Recon), or are in one case pagan deity cults that emerged after Christianity's existence (Ekklesía Antínoou), this particular "indigenous European" definition could (and I feel does) potentially exclude me and much of what I do, not to mention many members of my communities. I don't see what's wrong with being considered an NRM, and in fact most forms of pagan reconstructionist religion are NRMs, because they're not continuous practices...and I don't see anything wrong with admitting that.

In any case, thanks for posting this, and for your comments on the Pagans at the Parliament blog!

[dancingwriter]

I wish Corben-Arthan and the Pagans at PWR had thought through these issues as thoroughly and well as you have. Sigh.

[yezida]

Some of us tried.

http://yezida.livejournal.com/211204.html
http://yezida.livejournal.com/211558.html
http://yezida.livejournal.com/211871.html

[ulbh]

Indeed. I was heartened to read what you wrote at the time.

[ebonypearl]

I don't understand why Pagans and people presenting themselves as spokespeople for Pagans are so desperate to "fit in" that they feel the need for a single, simple definition. I also fail to understand why people work so hard to claim to be the voice of all Pagans (they can't and don't). What's wrong with representing their segment of Paganism, admit they are speaking only for that segment, and let the rest of us speak for ourselves, assuming we want to?

What's happening at the PWR is one reason why we can't let anyone emerge as the voice of Paganism. They will always leave out or disenfranchise a sizable portion of Pagans and those who are truly indigenous.

[lupagreenwolf]

Seconded. Also seconding the OP.

eurocentrism, etc.

[ext_190665]

Thanks for your very interesting post. I think it's very important to emphasize, as you have done, the problems with trying to "define" modern Paganism as somehow "European". And you are very right in pointing out that, regardless of what people intend, any kind of "European", or other form of "ethnic" or "racial" definition for Paganism is much too close for comfort with folks like those over at stormfront.org.

You are wrong, however, in you over-emphasis of the "newly synthesized" aspects of modern Paganism. ALL modern religious traditions, by definition, are adapted somehow or another to current societies and individuals. Paganism is no different in this respect. Like all other religious traditions it is a blend of old and new. But the vast majority of modern Pagans worship Deities that were worshipped long before Christianity came along. And even in pre-Christian cultures, the worship of these Goddesses and Gods was always changing, and was always different from one place to the next.

Apuleius

Re: eurocentrism, etc.

[ulbh]

"You are wrong, however, in you over-emphasis of the "newly synthesized" aspects of modern Paganism."

If there was over-emphasis there it was more a matter of the route I took than the view from the end. I thought I was saying that none of us have the sort of seamless connection to past practice that would be implied by "indigenous." But then, I did make a big deal out of the need to consider one's reader's reactions, so if I revise this, I'll try to balance out that aspect.

[yezida]

Thanks for writing up your thoughts.

[ulbh]

And thank you for prodding me to it; I need that, too often.