its part of the Army Comprehensive Soldier Fitness assessment which sounds very similar to your yearly assessment. As far as I've seen (as a military mental health practitioner)nobody has been voluntold to go. Honestly the ACSFA is stupid--like all forms and assessments of its sort its easily skewed and manipulated by the test taker.
I've only read news stories, no first hand experience. I haven't heard of a sailor ever being directed to see a Chaplain except when suicidal idealations were made on the sailor's part.
The link I added may illuminate the situation a bit.
yeah. I've seen that. Mr. Weinstein is a bit of a nutter for religious freedom (which I full support btw) he and his son both went to the AF academy where they were treated horrifically for being Jewish. This has a big of a personal bend for him. So I'm hesitant to say that things are happening at the rate he asserts. None of the chaplains I work with are super concerned with saving souls, rather they want to support families and soldiers going through crisis. I work at a major army medical center that receives most of the war wounds. So we're all a little busy to worry about "saving" people.
That being said, as marginally practicing Jew, I would be super offended if any chaplain did this to me and would be filing some serious grievances.
I haven't seen anything of that nature where I work. I'm Army. Except for the mandatory sitting through christian prayer at every important event, I'm not really forced or recommended to do anything religious. ;) I've heard of "spiritual fitness" but never had to fill out this survey you speak of.
Well except for that time in basic training.... they made me go to church and sing gospel songs.
Wikipedia states,
"Spiritual practices, including meditation, prayer and contemplation, are intended to develop an individual's inner life; such practices often lead to an experience of connectedness with a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos; or with the divine realm.
indeed. American United for Separation of Church and state are on them like flies on shit for it too. I went to basic in 2003 and had no choice. Since then, they have made an option for soldiers to opt out. After pressure from AU.
OK yeah, I read the article. Thats messed up, but I can really see it happening in some units. Not in mine though. I can see how the question, "Do you attend religious services?" could be used for statistical purposes to see which soldiers are happier, so I don't think they should remove it altogether. However, they shouldn't use the information gleaned from the survey to make anyone attend special spiritual fitness classes or something. This seems like another knee jerk reaction the Army is so well known for.
I spent my time in the Marines, church was compulsory in the beginning of boot, but later you had the option of opting out and doing work details
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If you're referring to the sixth commandment, the (original) Hebrew means "You shall not commit murder." Unless one considers all acts of war to be murder (including the Biblical ones), then those prosecuting said acts don't violate the commandment. "Atrocities in the field" as you call them, certainly would fall under the category of murder- which I'm glad we (globally) agree on being forbidden.
Your padre's Biblical knowledge must've been pretty poor if he had to invoke a loophole when a clear explanation like this is so obvious.
...and I mean really: "Though shalt not 'kill'" would logically lead us to conclude that we couldn't hunt or fish- does that make any sense?
Re: Bible-metadiermuidJanuary 21 2011, 03:58:28 UTC
I'm living an hour away from Fred Phelps, so I've certainly seen some atrocities in biblical interpretation. ;-)
I think the Chaplain explained it well enough, killing in a just war was not the same as the 'murder' referred to in the commandment. I suppose it depends on how you define murder... but in most senses we're still training to kill people in a premeditated act of aggression. Not that I had any problem with the killing of other people, I just kept my Christianity out of it.
Re: Bible-metathe_pathogenJanuary 22 2011, 21:13:20 UTC
So, by your own admission you're a Christian Vegan? As I'm sure you're a devout Christian and you must practice your faith to the best of your understanding and interpretation. If you conclude that "killing" includes non-humans, you must practice not killing humans.
I think "Though shalt not kill" should be kept within the scope of the other 10 commands. That is just common sense. Unless you're a moron and believe that we can't "steal" or "commit adultery" or "bear false witness" against animals, too. Hilarious!
Ok, so I'm posting a bit late to this thread, but I just found it. The story made me giggle. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it underscores how much people misunderstand things and how much gets blown out of proportion.
I've been a soldier for 22 years now. Six as an 88M (truck driver), 14 as an MP, and 2 in the Chaplain Corps. From a CH's perspective, the "spiritual fitness" portion of the PHA test is agnostic at best. I've taken it several times and get wildly varying results in every category (including Spiritual). It is sensitive to a few questions. I've never seen anyone discuss it that didn't want to. The test is a tool that can be used if needed or ignored. I believe its intention is to point the soldier to areas that might be an issue in their lives; not something leaders use
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The link I added may illuminate the situation a bit.
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That being said, as marginally practicing Jew, I would be super offended if any chaplain did this to me and would be filing some serious grievances.
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The AF Academy practices a particular brand of asshatery. If you're not an evangelical Christian there, you might as well wear a "KICK ME!" sign.
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Well except for that time in basic training.... they made me go to church and sing gospel songs.
Wikipedia states,
"Spiritual practices, including meditation, prayer and contemplation, are intended to develop an individual's inner life; such practices often lead to an experience of connectedness with a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos; or with the divine realm.
Spirituality doesn't mean Christianity. :)
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Well, that's blatantly illegal, but I likely wouldn't have resisted as a recruit at basic training either.
I'm not disputing Spirituality =/= Christianity, but the reports involve heresay of Chaplains asking if the soldiers have, wait for it... found Jesus.
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If you're referring to the sixth commandment, the (original) Hebrew means "You shall not commit murder." Unless one considers all acts of war to be murder (including the Biblical ones), then those prosecuting said acts don't violate the commandment. "Atrocities in the field" as you call them, certainly would fall under the category of murder- which I'm glad we (globally) agree on being forbidden.
Your padre's Biblical knowledge must've been pretty poor if he had to invoke a loophole when a clear explanation like this is so obvious.
...and I mean really: "Though shalt not 'kill'" would logically lead us to conclude that we couldn't hunt or fish- does that make any sense?
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I think the Chaplain explained it well enough, killing in a just war was not the same as the 'murder' referred to in the commandment. I suppose it depends on how you define murder... but in most senses we're still training to kill people in a premeditated act of aggression. Not that I had any problem with the killing of other people, I just kept my Christianity out of it.
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I think "Though shalt not kill" should be kept within the scope of the other 10 commands. That is just common sense. Unless you're a moron and believe that we can't "steal" or "commit adultery" or "bear false witness" against animals, too. Hilarious!
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I've been a soldier for 22 years now. Six as an 88M (truck driver), 14 as an MP, and 2 in the Chaplain Corps. From a CH's perspective, the "spiritual fitness" portion of the PHA test is agnostic at best. I've taken it several times and get wildly varying results in every category (including Spiritual). It is sensitive to a few questions. I've never seen anyone discuss it that didn't want to. The test is a tool that can be used if needed or ignored. I believe its intention is to point the soldier to areas that might be an issue in their lives; not something leaders use ( ... )
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