(no subject)
This is going to be a long post and it's coming from a liberal view so it will probably only be of interest to a few people... perhaps James, Jen, Toby, Liz, and Shivan. So I will cut it. It relates to a forward I received from a coworker (the people i work with are predominately republican) and it is our responses back and forth.
I loved the people I worked with, but one of the negatives of my job was that everyone I worked with is a republican. I had to listen to them all the time… they called me the young whipper snapper as I was never afraid to speak up.
Well…. Today, Mike Napier, a fellow coworker, made the mistake of sending me a forward. I am pasting the forward below and then adding my response to him for you to see:
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words....
redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"
She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus - college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over."
Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the Republican party."
My response:
Mike,
I do not think this is a level comparison. Honestly? The girl gives 1.0 of her GPA so that her friend can have the same GPA. I believe the impact something that dramatic would have on her life and her future career is hardly comparable to the change in someone’s life because the top two tax brackets raised by a couple percentage points. Also, leveling out their GPA is not the same. Someone making $250,000 pays higher taxes, but that does not equate to me also receiving an income of $250,000. Instead it just means I get to survive through unemployment benefits because of something that happened to me that was out of my control. Government programs have very good purposes.
Given I am a person that will be taking advantage of Unemployment in just over a month I must say I am very grateful that “wealth was redistributed” to go to that program. If Mr. Johnson had not helped me get me out of my lease, unemployment would just barely cover my months expenses, not including food. I would have had to sell the mutual funds I invested in at a loss (A few months ago I had $12,000 now I have $8500-$9500 depending on the day) just to pay for food and survive in my apartment until my lease ended in May.
There is a reason these programs exist. Obama’s tax plan increases taxes for those making $200,000 as a single and $250,000 as a family. I can honestly say I do not personally know anyone who even makes that much. My parents made a little over half that combined and I’ve been to over 25 countries by age 22 thanks to them. Amazing!
Just some food for thought…
Kristen
That forward is also a slap in the face to those who make lower incomes. A plumber (hmmm Joe??) or even a teacher make lower incomes, but many work their tails off. This story compares the young woman’s friend Aubrey to people like plumbers, as well as myself, who may be very hard workers, but have unfortunate situations come upon themselves. I find it hard to believe that someone as intelligent as you would consider this forward to “draw a nice analogy and a lot of truth.”
Well, Todd and Mike, my coworkers, both responded to me. Todd sent me two emails and Mike one. I sent them one final email:
Todd’s two emails:
Email #1)
Hi Kristen,
Not to stir the pot, but I think you missed the point. The idea is that those who work hard to get ahead are being penalized for the sake of helping those who don’t try hard to help themselves.
Let me challenge you a different way… I hope you aspire to make a six figure income someday. I hope you marry someone who does too. Then you will have the “privilege” of giving the Federal government over $75,000 per year and the state another $15,000. Have another $20,000+ taken for Social Security and Medicare which you may or may not benefit from, and I think you will begin to feel why many think the current system is already “fair”.
When 40+ percent of the people pay nothing and reap the majority of benefit from our “social” programs today, why should anyone be asked to pay more? Shouldn’t those who pay nothing, ask for less?
Todd A. Steinbrink, CRPC ®
Email #2)
You haven’t paid a plumber lately…Plumbers who reach the top of their profession, most of whom own their own business, make over $150 hour - do the math. Most of them will work more than 40 hours a week, too. No paid vacation, they don’t get paid on sick days, and they have to worry about their employees and customers. They don’t just show up 9 to 5. If the employees don’t take the risk, they don’t get the reward.
Try working on commission…If you are successful in that job, you owe somebody else? Ridiculous.
We have several “teachers” who have similarly reached the top of their profession, and one couple in particular makes over $400,000 per year. They are in a “noble” profession, not a greedy one, so are they exempt from Obama’s tax plan?
It is a function of hard work, not job title. You don’t get there overnight, so when you do, you should be allowed to keep the spoils. That is entirely the point.
Todd A. Steinbrink, CRPC ®
Mike’s Email:
I do not have much time to reply to this email now; I'm sorry if I insulted you. I don't think you understood the point well. The story compares someone who works hard in school to someone who did not work hard and instead took easy classes and goofed off. And yes, some people work their tails off without making what they should. But, once again, this story compares to someone who works hard compared to someone who does not.
I, in-fact, am not for a tax cut for the middle class. Once this economy shakes out; it's time to balance the budget, cut spending and pay back our national debt. I, frankly, do not have a problem with the progressive tax system. But, in my opinion, this is not the time to raise taxes and re-distribute it to folks who are not paying federal taxes or for families like mine who are middle-class. I' m not an advocate for raising taxes on people who make more than $250,000 and are small business owners. This may cause more layoffs.
My Final Response to them:
Todd & Mike,
I am not confused. I get the point of the forward exactly. It is nothing I am unaware of or have not heard before. However, this forward was sent to me when I am obviously a democrat as well as a person in a situation where I will be taking advantage of government programs.
The main reason I do not agree with it is that it uses this one argument as an example for the entire republican platform. The last line states that. I also find it amusing because I only receive republican forwards from Mike when he is not a republican, in fact he has stated several times he is probably voting for Obama. Come on Mike... if you’re a middle man can I get forwards from both sides, please?
There are many people who have benefited from government programs that have also paid taxes.
There is no need to rip apart the two professions I mentioned. The vast majority of teachers and plumbers do not make $250,000. I’m glad some people have had those professions and managed to make a large amount, but that is not the norm Todd. My entire point was that there are many people in this country that make lower wages and work very hard. Mike also stated that.
I understand that it frustrates you as well as other people that some of your tax money goes to people who have not worked as hard. It’s inevitable. However, not all tax money is used for people taking advantage of the system. It has many good purposes like I have said.
I am different from you. I was raised differently. My parents are both older than (both of) you, they’ve paid taxes longer. They are just as educated. I am constantly told it will bother me some day too. That one day I will wake up, be making 6 figures and it will really bother me that I could have a few thousand more.
Perhaps there is a chance, but I believe it is highly unlikely. My parents’ opinion never changed. Most people’s values and ideals follow their parents. Republicans equate lack of money with laziness which is not always the case. With wealth comes responsibility to society, in my own opinion. If rich individuals and churches were fully able to take care of the poor then the government would not have to help. During the Great Depression it was agreed by our society that we couldn't let people die in the streets from starvation and that old people should be helped, etc. I agree with that. I volunteer at Stop AIDS because I believe in helping people, whether they brought the situation upon themselves or not. I’m not very religious, yet it’s exactly what Jesus would do.
I don’t want to argue anymore. I am perfectly okay with both of your opinions. I believe neither of our opinions are wrong. Yours just work for you. Mine works for me. If Mike is going to fill my inbox at home with this type of email I have a right to respond. I was sitting here, packing, using sandpaper to buff up the spackle marks on my wall and preparing for how my future is changing. I’ve listened to everyone at Wealth Planning talk about republican ideals for months… it was my chance to just say something.
Just know I like you both very much. I think you are wonderful, intelligent people and I’ve greatly enjoyed all the time I’ve spent working with you. We just disagree on a few things.
See you tomorrow,
Kristen
Maybe I’ll work with a few democrats in the future??? One can hope… :-p
I loved the people I worked with, but one of the negatives of my job was that everyone I worked with is a republican. I had to listen to them all the time… they called me the young whipper snapper as I was never afraid to speak up.
Well…. Today, Mike Napier, a fellow coworker, made the mistake of sending me a forward. I am pasting the forward below and then adding my response to him for you to see:
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words....
redistribution of wealth.
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"
She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus - college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over."
Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the Republican party."
My response:
Mike,
I do not think this is a level comparison. Honestly? The girl gives 1.0 of her GPA so that her friend can have the same GPA. I believe the impact something that dramatic would have on her life and her future career is hardly comparable to the change in someone’s life because the top two tax brackets raised by a couple percentage points. Also, leveling out their GPA is not the same. Someone making $250,000 pays higher taxes, but that does not equate to me also receiving an income of $250,000. Instead it just means I get to survive through unemployment benefits because of something that happened to me that was out of my control. Government programs have very good purposes.
Given I am a person that will be taking advantage of Unemployment in just over a month I must say I am very grateful that “wealth was redistributed” to go to that program. If Mr. Johnson had not helped me get me out of my lease, unemployment would just barely cover my months expenses, not including food. I would have had to sell the mutual funds I invested in at a loss (A few months ago I had $12,000 now I have $8500-$9500 depending on the day) just to pay for food and survive in my apartment until my lease ended in May.
There is a reason these programs exist. Obama’s tax plan increases taxes for those making $200,000 as a single and $250,000 as a family. I can honestly say I do not personally know anyone who even makes that much. My parents made a little over half that combined and I’ve been to over 25 countries by age 22 thanks to them. Amazing!
Just some food for thought…
Kristen
That forward is also a slap in the face to those who make lower incomes. A plumber (hmmm Joe??) or even a teacher make lower incomes, but many work their tails off. This story compares the young woman’s friend Aubrey to people like plumbers, as well as myself, who may be very hard workers, but have unfortunate situations come upon themselves. I find it hard to believe that someone as intelligent as you would consider this forward to “draw a nice analogy and a lot of truth.”
Well, Todd and Mike, my coworkers, both responded to me. Todd sent me two emails and Mike one. I sent them one final email:
Todd’s two emails:
Email #1)
Hi Kristen,
Not to stir the pot, but I think you missed the point. The idea is that those who work hard to get ahead are being penalized for the sake of helping those who don’t try hard to help themselves.
Let me challenge you a different way… I hope you aspire to make a six figure income someday. I hope you marry someone who does too. Then you will have the “privilege” of giving the Federal government over $75,000 per year and the state another $15,000. Have another $20,000+ taken for Social Security and Medicare which you may or may not benefit from, and I think you will begin to feel why many think the current system is already “fair”.
When 40+ percent of the people pay nothing and reap the majority of benefit from our “social” programs today, why should anyone be asked to pay more? Shouldn’t those who pay nothing, ask for less?
Todd A. Steinbrink, CRPC ®
Email #2)
You haven’t paid a plumber lately…Plumbers who reach the top of their profession, most of whom own their own business, make over $150 hour - do the math. Most of them will work more than 40 hours a week, too. No paid vacation, they don’t get paid on sick days, and they have to worry about their employees and customers. They don’t just show up 9 to 5. If the employees don’t take the risk, they don’t get the reward.
Try working on commission…If you are successful in that job, you owe somebody else? Ridiculous.
We have several “teachers” who have similarly reached the top of their profession, and one couple in particular makes over $400,000 per year. They are in a “noble” profession, not a greedy one, so are they exempt from Obama’s tax plan?
It is a function of hard work, not job title. You don’t get there overnight, so when you do, you should be allowed to keep the spoils. That is entirely the point.
Todd A. Steinbrink, CRPC ®
Mike’s Email:
I do not have much time to reply to this email now; I'm sorry if I insulted you. I don't think you understood the point well. The story compares someone who works hard in school to someone who did not work hard and instead took easy classes and goofed off. And yes, some people work their tails off without making what they should. But, once again, this story compares to someone who works hard compared to someone who does not.
I, in-fact, am not for a tax cut for the middle class. Once this economy shakes out; it's time to balance the budget, cut spending and pay back our national debt. I, frankly, do not have a problem with the progressive tax system. But, in my opinion, this is not the time to raise taxes and re-distribute it to folks who are not paying federal taxes or for families like mine who are middle-class. I' m not an advocate for raising taxes on people who make more than $250,000 and are small business owners. This may cause more layoffs.
My Final Response to them:
Todd & Mike,
I am not confused. I get the point of the forward exactly. It is nothing I am unaware of or have not heard before. However, this forward was sent to me when I am obviously a democrat as well as a person in a situation where I will be taking advantage of government programs.
The main reason I do not agree with it is that it uses this one argument as an example for the entire republican platform. The last line states that. I also find it amusing because I only receive republican forwards from Mike when he is not a republican, in fact he has stated several times he is probably voting for Obama. Come on Mike... if you’re a middle man can I get forwards from both sides, please?
There are many people who have benefited from government programs that have also paid taxes.
There is no need to rip apart the two professions I mentioned. The vast majority of teachers and plumbers do not make $250,000. I’m glad some people have had those professions and managed to make a large amount, but that is not the norm Todd. My entire point was that there are many people in this country that make lower wages and work very hard. Mike also stated that.
I understand that it frustrates you as well as other people that some of your tax money goes to people who have not worked as hard. It’s inevitable. However, not all tax money is used for people taking advantage of the system. It has many good purposes like I have said.
I am different from you. I was raised differently. My parents are both older than (both of) you, they’ve paid taxes longer. They are just as educated. I am constantly told it will bother me some day too. That one day I will wake up, be making 6 figures and it will really bother me that I could have a few thousand more.
Perhaps there is a chance, but I believe it is highly unlikely. My parents’ opinion never changed. Most people’s values and ideals follow their parents. Republicans equate lack of money with laziness which is not always the case. With wealth comes responsibility to society, in my own opinion. If rich individuals and churches were fully able to take care of the poor then the government would not have to help. During the Great Depression it was agreed by our society that we couldn't let people die in the streets from starvation and that old people should be helped, etc. I agree with that. I volunteer at Stop AIDS because I believe in helping people, whether they brought the situation upon themselves or not. I’m not very religious, yet it’s exactly what Jesus would do.
I don’t want to argue anymore. I am perfectly okay with both of your opinions. I believe neither of our opinions are wrong. Yours just work for you. Mine works for me. If Mike is going to fill my inbox at home with this type of email I have a right to respond. I was sitting here, packing, using sandpaper to buff up the spackle marks on my wall and preparing for how my future is changing. I’ve listened to everyone at Wealth Planning talk about republican ideals for months… it was my chance to just say something.
Just know I like you both very much. I think you are wonderful, intelligent people and I’ve greatly enjoyed all the time I’ve spent working with you. We just disagree on a few things.
See you tomorrow,
Kristen
Maybe I’ll work with a few democrats in the future??? One can hope… :-p