quote of the day

[vegetus]

"There is never going to be unity. The gap between "I do not want to personally cause suffering, but respect other people's beliefs [in their right to be complete bastards]" and "I prefer other animals to people and will stop at nothing to liberate them" is absolutely immense. The only reason the two groups hang out with each other is that they're

Comments

[vegetus]

You disagree with them... but in a good way :)

[zebrallama]

That might be true, but I don't find it worrying or depressing (and I find a *lot* of other things worrying or depressing). No political community has much unity. Things get done anyway.

[vegetus]

Having watched groups implode because of infighting and pettiness (ask me about the state of the AR movement in WA sometime) I'd say that it's alot of wasted effort and energy that should be spent fighting the animal abusers rather than ourselves. Things may get done, but we'd get alot more done if we looked outward rather than inward...

[zebrallama]

Yes, I agree. What I meant was that we, and other political communities, manage to do some looking outward desite the internal conflicts. But I agree that we need more.

[ianslife]

Thanks for your comment Grahame, but you've made exactly the mistake I was addressing.

I do agree there's an analogy. Both groups are speaking for groups who can't speak for themselves. (I could write many paragraphs on the interests of a foetal human, and the interests of other animals, but I want this post to be short enough to be readable. I'll just stress that "analogous" does not mean "morally equivalent".)

Veg*ns who think other people have a right to hurt animals are analogous to women who would not themselves have an abortion who are pro-choice-for-others. The gulf *within* the veg*n movement is as big as the gulf between pro-choicers and pro-lifers. It's like drawing a circle around almost everyone, leaving only people who are actively in favour of abortion on the outside, and calling it a single movement.

And I agree, Zebrallama :)

[vegetus]

Nope... the terrorist wing of the AR movement- the ALF- and the environment movement- the ELF- both have a policy of not hurting humans even if they torture animals or destroy the environment. Rather they damage property, rescue animals and expose what happens behind closed doors.

The anti-abortion movement (they are not 'right to life') will go out and intentionally maim and kill.

Regardless if you agree or disagree with either group you can't view them as identical in terms of tactics.

And what Ian was talking about was the difference between people who think it is wrong for everyone to hurt animals, rather than it being wrong for only them to hurt animals. But he explained that much better...