ZZZ...

[victoly]

Yeah, so upon reflection that last entry was probably really boring to most of you. Well, you know what? I don't really care. I have fun writing sometimes, just for me. So, on that note, what am I gonna do? I'm going to write a whole lot more about things that few of you will probably care about.

Comments

[shoeless_wade]

First, about the fountain, I know I'm one of the mentioned people, but just as a statement- I have no problem with the 'pro-death' message that is presented in Izzy's story. Obviously we're to see that as a pretty healthy and necessary acceptance of death. The issue is the main character, who 'doesn't get it' and the start of the movie and, from my own perspective, 'missed the point' at the end. One sees death as natural, I might say, and the other doesn't- maybe because he isn't actually dying

[victoly]

Yeah, I was mostly thinking about some other guy, but you a bit too.

Hope is a big subject, and one that's certainly relevant, but I admit that I generally take a lack of hope for granted when considering issues like this. I didn't really get into the reasons for suicide because I wasn't really trying to justify it, only to show that I don't understand why it is often absolutely reviled.

If I could suggest a definition for hope, that would be the conviction that events beyond our own control can or will turn out in our favour. I think it's fairly reasonable to suggest that, in most things we attempt, there are certain factors beyond our immediate perception or control which affect the outcome of our efforts, and "hope" is a sort of living-in-belief that things will work out alright ("optimism" being the related rational perspective on the same issue). I don't know if hope is simply something we can choose though. Perhaps, like many things, you live it and learn it through experience, but if you're already in the throes of

[shoeless_wade]

Yeah, that's why I'm talking about hope as an 'imaginative' thing. I don't mean Hope exactly, I don't think. What do you call it when you ask someone "What do you want" and they don't know? What is it called when you do know what you want? " Imagining what you want" is what I'm talking about, I think. Doing that can be hard, and it involves a lot of honesty with yourself, but most people who are depressed, i think, can easily name the stuff that they don't like about their lives, and if you can take the same sort of personal inventory and switch it to the positive

[victoly]

Yeah, I think what you say about our evolution conditioning us against suicide in a "primal fear" way makes a lot of sense. Something I hadn't considered, but probably ultimately the truth. I suppose I hadn't considered it because I didn't want to and that's not really the angle I wanted to take on the issue (just as explaining that we have biological impulses that support racist tendencies doesn't make racism okay, since we expect rationality and compassion to triumph there, though I admit that's a weird analogy), but it does help explain things quite well.

Re: hmmm

[victoly]

I would agree that suicide can be a "rational" option, but I give that term much less credit than most. Thinking you're a superhero might be a "rational option" if you wake up after a dream where you can fly.

Regardless, I'm not really trying to justify suicide here, only to say that it shouldn't be thought of as reprehensible. I totally understand people being hurt when they lose a loved one, no matter the reason, but I guess I feel that "blame" in general is a fairly useless concept.