After due consideration, I have decided to explain publicly why I will not participate in the TOME awards and why I will encourage others to boycott them as well. ( Read more... )
Please give TOME a chance! I know those discussion threads are bewildering and I find them difficult to follow, but I don't at all think that anybody meant to allow child porn (and Dawn has since explained that because of ToS that wouldn't even be possible if anyone did want to). In fact, what I remember reading was that people were asking for an especially strong content warning even for stories in which child abuse was described in a condemnatory way, because it can have a triggering effect for some. What TOME needs is for more gen ficcers to join and vote for the policies they want--after all, all the really important decisions are polled and the one you're talking about hasn't been made yet at all. If you encourage gen ficcers to boycott the polls, then they really will be underrepresented.
I'm still trying to talk sense over there, but everything I say is met with a bunch of politically correct BS and semantic word games, because Nobody wants to draw a line . . .
If it's a true legal problem, you need to take it up with the Stewards rather than the general membership.
It was my understanding that the stewards are reading their own comm. As for the general membership, people need to know when they are being potentially put in danger.
Virtuella, you are making untrue statements regarding the ratings discussion and doing so using language which seems intentionally chosen to damage the reputations of those involved with the awards. That borders on libel. There is no 'erotica lobby.' There is no desire to exclude anyone. You're choosing emotionally laden language to make a fallacious argument against a conspiratorial agenda which doesn't exist.
I just want to say that I at times have become frustrated with the direction the discussions were taking.
The only line I was unwilling to draw was the eligibility line between NC-17 content that is 'literary' and NC-17 content that is pornography. That would be more subjective and contentious than the old line between Mature and Adult.
Other than that, the membership was overwhelmingly in favor of accepting adult material. We had to work within those parameters.
"my way, or it should not exist at all" Why claim that if the awards turn out to have a policy not to your liking, they should be boycotted and/ or not happen at all?
I thought that as well. It not only doesn’t make any sense, frankly, it kinda even seems malicious to me.
(reposted because I put in a link which your LJ settings don't like)
Claiming that the ToMEs will promote fascism and racism is ludicrous, as you should be well aware. Just like the MEFAs, the ToMEs will be bound by the TOS of any hoster chosen.
I'm also going to ignore the laughable diatribe against the "Pornography lobby". As your recent posts and your refusal to engage those who answered you in discussions have shown, that is not really what you are interested in after all.
But there are two parts here which I refuse to let stand like that, because in one case, I am well qualified to answer that myself, and in the second case, have talked with a professor of law about it. (Link deleted here because of your LJ settings, just google for Rebecca Tushnet yourself.)
First, your complaint about legality. I am not quite sure what your sources are, but since I went to the effort of talking to someone who is actually qualified to talk about them instead of spreading rumours, I got the following answer:
Claiming that the ToMEs will promote fascism and racism is ludicrous, as you should be well aware. Just like the MEFAs, the ToMEs will be bound by the TOS of any hoster chosen.
As a member of the taskforce that deals with such things, if we ever were presented with an outright racist or fascist piece, there would be a warning attached. Probably not a very tactfully worded warning either. But what are you going to do with a source work that seems, in general, to think that big, tall blond heroic people are cooler than small stunted swarthy ones? And those Valar sure do like people who obey orders!
A quick aside here - I am on a train at the moment and cannot really write in an extended way, but I think you are conflatingVirtuella with another poster on one point - I don't think she has ever made any reference to fisting. It's possible, I suppose, that I have missed something, in which case I will be really embarassed, but I don't believe she has. In any case, I would ask that we all take care and read each other's words attentively - applies to me too, and it's not an easy task when so many different conversatiions are going on every which where.
I remembering her mentioning the fisting - might have beeen on NiRi's post that has been deleted since. But even if I remember wrong... I think it is very obvious to everyone here just whom she is referring to. She repeated talks about the S&M and mpreg in discussions in various places with other people who in turn talk about the fist-fucking fests, mpreg elves, our 'fan-fisting awards' and so on and so forth. ;)
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I know those discussion threads are bewildering and I find them difficult to follow, but I don't at all think that anybody meant to allow child porn (and Dawn has since explained that because of ToS that wouldn't even be possible if anyone did want to). In fact, what I remember reading was that people were asking for an especially strong content warning even for stories in which child abuse was described in a condemnatory way, because it can have a triggering effect for some.
What TOME needs is for more gen ficcers to join and vote for the policies they want--after all, all the really important decisions are polled and the one you're talking about hasn't been made yet at all. If you encourage gen ficcers to boycott the polls, then they really will be underrepresented.
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If it's a true legal problem, you need to take it up with the Stewards rather than the general membership.
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The only line I was unwilling to draw was the eligibility line between NC-17 content that is 'literary' and NC-17 content that is pornography. That would be more subjective and contentious than the old line between Mature and Adult.
Other than that, the membership was overwhelmingly in favor of accepting adult material. We had to work within those parameters.
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Why claim that if the awards turn out to have a policy not to your liking, they should be boycotted and/ or not happen at all?
I thought that as well. It not only doesn’t make any sense, frankly, it kinda even seems malicious to me.
Reply
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Claiming that the ToMEs will promote fascism and racism is ludicrous, as you should be well aware. Just like the MEFAs, the ToMEs will be bound by the TOS of any hoster chosen.
I'm also going to ignore the laughable diatribe against the "Pornography lobby". As your recent posts and your refusal to engage those who answered you in discussions have shown, that is not really what you are interested in after all.
But there are two parts here which I refuse to let stand like that, because in one case, I am well qualified to answer that myself, and in the second case, have talked with a professor of law about it. (Link deleted here because of your LJ settings, just google for Rebecca Tushnet yourself.)
First, your complaint about legality. I am not quite sure what your sources are, but since I went to the effort of talking to someone who is actually qualified to talk about them instead of spreading rumours, I got the following answer:
Warnings for adult content are ( ... )
Reply
As a member of the taskforce that deals with such things, if we ever were presented with an outright racist or fascist piece, there would be a warning attached. Probably not a very tactfully worded warning either. But what are you going to do with a source work that seems, in general, to think that big, tall blond heroic people are cooler than small stunted swarthy ones? And those Valar sure do like people who obey orders!
Reply
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