I get thrown off by radicalism and false social paradigms.

[vroope]

First item, Dan sent me this declaration (trigger warning for rape) a few days ago for discussion. I found it troubling as someone that has made the mistakes of trivializing rape and being unconsciously sexist, realizes that these were shitty things to do, and spends time becoming more enlightened in the ways of feminism in an effort to not make

Comments

[flamingophoenix]

Wow, that's really interesting re: prostitutes. I guess I'll read her clarification in the comments. My initial reaction would be to say that *many* men who hire prostitutes rape them, but some prostitutes do choose their profession willingly. I guess the question is, how many?

I do think she falls into the (often observed at Sville) category of "so fucking sick of the bullshit, I'm done educating people." Which is unfortunate, but it happens.

LOL forever @ "alpha male" etc.

[flamingophoenix]

P. suggests Thulsa Doon (able to hypnotize women with his eyes) and Edward Cullen (has his wife/gf completely cowed and utterly obedient to his whims) as Alpha Males.

[flamingophoenix]

Uh. Actually, I'm not going to read the comments.

[flamingophoenix]

I lied. Hoo, boy. So...paying taxes makes you a rapist, because of what happened at Haliburton. Riiiight.

[iii_demon]

i was seriously pissed off this morning when i read this. at other stuff, not this. but it put me in a ranty mood and i wanted to bitch. i didnt, because i hate being a dick. i'm much less pissed off right now, so my phrasing will be a little nicer but my thoughts are still the same.

people like this frustrate the hell out of me. they're undermining the cause they're supposedly fighting for. declarations like that ludicrous list of 'rape supporters' are just as bad as the 'god hates fags' crew, or suicide bombers... they arent advancing the cause they claim to support, they're just making people think they're utter nutjob assholes.

if i think that going to a brothel in nevada and legally paying someone for sex is not the same thing as breaking into a strangers house, holding them at gunpoint, and fucking them in the ass... apparently that makes me a 'rape supporter'. well then... fuck yeah rape. bring it on.

the list is absurd. i can think of many more ways to say that, but i'll stop now. :P

[flamingophoenix]

I think the problem is that there are such TOTALLY DIFFERENT things on the list.

He has ever sexually engaged with any woman while she was underage, drunk, high, physically restrained, unconscious, or subjected to psychological, physical, economic, or emotional coercion.That's not "rape supporter," that's "rapist." Although some of that is a grey zone -- e.g. I think that it's perfectly acceptable for established couples* to say "Honey, if I'm drunk off my ass and I get amorous, it's okay if we have sex." That's because you trust your partner not to try to have sex with you if you're drunk and *not* amorous. It's a previously-established relationship, you've had the discussion, etc. etc. etc. One should never *assume* consent without having that explicit conversation first, but if the conversation is had...I don't consider that to be rape

[flamingophoenix]

But yeah, so, my point before I got derailed was: You have "obviously about rape" items on that list, and then you have "items which are actually complex and may or may not be about rape." Like the thing about prostitutes, above.

Many of these things on the list connect to rape because they essentially say "women don't get to decide what to do with their bodies." But many other things on the list are just not that simple.

[vroope]

"they're undermining the cause they're supposedly fighting for." People also said that about Andrea Dworkin. Given that she has mentioned not agreeing with certain aspects of third wave feminism, I guess she's following in Dworkin's militant footsteps.

It is frustrating, and I really wish that more rational people would get just as frustrated by so many MRAs who, while having some valid points here and there, paint themselves as nutjobs by categorizing ALL women as conniving sluts (but only for alphas) bent on destroying men entirely.

[crazy__sunshine]

lol @ Margaret Thatcher