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Dec 31, 2004 19:10

the new bright eyes albums are awesome. especially 'im wide awake, its morning'. buy them as soon as they come out ( Read more... )

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aeonvolupz December 31 2004, 18:54:08 UTC
More than that number of innocents have died in Iraq. The tv news films do not dwell on their stories, injuries, horrific pain ... maybe we need to send some rich white tourists over there.

(I do not mean to diminish the horror of the tsunami disaster -- it has been my obsession for the past four days -- I am just reaching the 'anger' part of my grief. This world is so sad.)

I hope your next ten days pass quickly and safely.

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warallthetime45 January 1 2005, 14:59:42 UTC
i dont mean to start an argument, but first of all, define innocent. second, if that means civilians, then that is wrong too. There is so much urban fighting going on against kids and adults dressed in civilian clothing. Its also a little hard to fight an enemy that uses schools, hospitals, mosques and ancient historical sights as defense. How do you battle them without killing innocents? Most of the time, the army gives citizens much warning to leave the area. In Fallujah, i believe we gave them 7 or so days to leave the city before the battle. Lately, insurgents have killed more iraqi civilians in suicide bombins on thier own people (iraqi police stations, voting reg. centers) then the americans.

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aeonvolupz January 1 2005, 21:11:35 UTC
I certainly did not want to start an argument with you. For one thing, you are in the middle of a war, and I am safely on the other side of the world. Our perspectives are a bit different.

Still, my perspective is valid too. (No one sees the 'whole elephant')

You mentioned once that you are not getting a lot of exposure to other news sources there. In time you might be able to catch up. In any event, this war is so similar to Viet Nam that I get the chills. The statement you give about civilians being the enemy (disguised to trick you) is the same; the training to kill without questioning is the same; the division of the nation with propaganda about 'patriotism=unquestioning obedience to leaders' is the same; the flags and ribbons are the same; the horrific lies to the soldiers is the same; the 'insurgency' that wants an alien government out of their country is ... the same.

I just saw the McNamara documentary Fog of War this week. I still hate him -- it took him 30 years to admit his wrongs (he admitted some, anyway); he caused ( ... )

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sharontony January 2 2005, 06:39:35 UTC
There's a big difference between Vietnam and the war in Iraq. The Vietnam war was a political war; the North Vietnamese were not slaughtering their own people (although in a sense they were, since they were embroiled pretty much in a civil war), but we fought there as one of the many fronts in the Cold War against the expansion and oppression of Communism (while one say we "lost" in Vietnam, we won the greater struggle in the end). In Iraq, the war was against a brutal dictator who had slaughtered his own people and threatened peace and stability in the region and was continuing to do so (defying UN resolutions, violating the UN embargo, encouraging and supporting terrorism, etc...). For someone to defend the Hussein regime would be like defending Hitler's Third Reich and protesting the Second World War ("Let the Jews die; it's none of our business"). While I'm not sure we're going about the "nation-building" part the right way (I don't know all of the details and I'm not an expert in that area), the war itself was righteous.

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sharontony December 31 2004, 23:04:59 UTC
Was that last posting a dig at American policy towards Iraq, or the fact that we've freed the people of Iraq from an oppressive dictator who killed his people just like Hitler killed the Jews, gypsies, etc...? Anyway, Jim, 400,000 is a high number. CNN is saying about 135,000 right now, but both numbers are horrific. By the way, I wouldn't be threatening to go to the Mech when you get back if I were you, 'cause you just might get your wish -- they just mobilized for Iraq duty! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!

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countmeout321 January 1 2005, 03:08:54 UTC
H a p p y N e w Y e a r ! ! ! I love you ♥

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