Blue Triskele Wicca?

[ianphanes]

I just posted a reflection in my LJ about possibly calling the style my coven practices Blue Triskele Wicca.  I would be interested in reactions from folks here, especially Blue Star folk.

Blue Triskele Wicca?

Disclaimer:  I am using the word Wicca in a slightly broader sense than the definition used in this community.  Blue Star and Blue Triskele

Comments

Slightly broader?

[tryst_inn]

Well, I can't see how its Wicca and here's why:

1. No degree system. That's HUGE. Wicca is an initiatory priesthood.

2. 3 deities, so that's fairly important right there.

3. Not orthopraxic

I can't quite see how any priesthood works without a degree system and given that Wicca is priesthood, this is looking very NOT Wicca from here.

Perhaps if you gave us more information on how you perceive this to be authentically, validly Wicca but at this point, I'm not seeing it from here.

Re: Slightly broader?

[ianphanes]

1. I said that we don't use a degree system, but I also said that we are initiatory. Some people refer to traditions like ours as "one-degree systems", but that seems silly, except in a a document comparing different initiatory system. Perhaps it would help if I explained that we perform a dedication ritual only after someone has guested multiple times and that an individual must spend *at least* a year as a dedicant before asking for initiation. I am convinced that we are a priesthood, but that we don't use a degree system to structure our priesthood

Re: Slightly broader?

[tryst_inn]

I'm not a Blue Star Initiate, I'm a BTW Initiate (of Silver Crescent and Kingstone). There are members of both these Traditions who are also Blue Star and they have told me they do not consider Blue Star to be Wicca, so that's all I have to go by. Is that enough? I don't know, because once again, I'm not a Blue Star Initiate

Re: Slightly broader?

[ianphanes]

We *are* our tradition's elders. Blue Star was not a trad when my initiators broke from Tzip and Franque. (With full approval from Franque and threats from Tzip. But it was specifically Tzip's behaviors that caused the separation, so that wasn't really a surprise.) And Franque, when Caspian was in email contact with him a few years back, was fully supportive of us.

As for our status as Wicca, it all depends on how broadly one defines it. If one requires lineage from the New Forest, we are obviously not Wicca. I made quite explicit in my post where our lineage comes from. I also made explicit that I am using the word Wicca more broadly than BTW. It appears that your definition doesn't match mine, giving us no ground for discussion of that specific point.

[pierceheart]

Blue Star [...] are not BTW

There are those, who are NOT Blue Star, who are BTW, who disagree with this statement.

[ianphanes]

Which statement? (I made several.) And what is the specific disagreement?

[pierceheart]

Did you miss my quote?

Blue Star [...] are not BTW

The ellipsis is to indicate that I am deleting a portion of your statement about which I am not commenting.

The specific disagreement is that there are BTWs who consider some Blue Star to be BTW.

[ianphanes]

It is certainly possible that some Blue Star initiates may have separately received BTW lineage. My statement is that the source lineage of both Blue Star and my line--that is, the initiation received by Franque--is not BTW,but Welsh. Even though Pam was a Gardnerian priestess, she did not transmit that to Franque, and thus it is not part of the source lineage for Blue Star. Does that match what you've heard?

[tigira]

I know quite a few who consider Blue Star to be BTW. We've come to the realization that there is a BTW line in Blue Star and a non-BTW line - we are all still Blue Star, and can work together and do the same things, though.

As for Blue Star heritage, you won't be the first to branch out from Blue Star and start something almost completely new. The others that I know of, though, have at least kept the multiple levels of initiation.

[ianphanes]

My impression is that the multiple levels of initiation were added after my initiators separated from Franque & Tzip. Remember that they separated before the founding of a distinct trad. Thus, we are not branching out from Blue Star. Rather, both Blue Star and we branched out from Eddie Buczynski's Welsh Tradition, independently of each other.

[frauholla]

You are a witchcraft tradition, but I do not seen the proper connections need to be Wiccan.

The initiatory lineage does not appear to be there.

Taking away from the core is not something that makes a group Wiccan. Removing some degrees is something that would disqualify this tradition as Wiccan.

That is my take as a 1* Gardnerian.

What is wrong with Blue Triskell Witchcraft?

[ianphanes]

What is wrong with Blue Triskell Witchcraft?

First off, I said that I'm defining Wicca more broadly than just BTW--though I do consider BTW to be the core of Wicca, and that anything that gets too far from that practice isn't Wiccan. (I really need to write an essay on what I consider to be core to Wicca. As a point of reference, I find Ellen Cannon Reed's The Heart of Wicca very influential.) I've been very clear what our lineage is, and have made the point multiple times in this community that it is not BTW. If you define the word Wicca as identical with BTW, then we must acknowledge that we are using different definitions.

As for why I'm using Wicca in the name:

1. Because what we do is an initiatory, lineaged, traditional, gendered, orthopraxic, mystery tradition, with heteroerotic divine polarity at the core.

2. Because it's parallel with Blue Star Wicca, which is what that trad publicly calls itself.

3. Because my other Craft practice--which I've been involved with for longer than I have with this--is distinctly non-

[frauholla]

Just because what you do is an initiatory, lineaged, traditional, gendered, orthopraxic, mystery tradition, with heteroerotic divine polarity at the core does not make it Wiccan

[ianphanes]

As I said to tryst_inn:

I did not post a link here to attempt to claim a spurious status as Wicca-as-defined-in-this-community. My posting here is because I know there are a number of Blue Star folks in this community. The use of "Wicca" was not the focus on my reflection, but the use of triskele to both parallel and differ from star. The word Wicca is there partially because it's part of the name of Blue Star Wicca.

Please note, I am not asking you to change your definition of Wicca, or to validate us as Wicca. Nor am I asking this community to change its definition of Wicca to match mine. I invited people to go read something in my LiveJournal and respond there if they felt moved to do so. I'm not trying to create any discomfort for anyone here.

[sanacrow]

I would not call it Wicca. I also would not call it traditional.