Comments | wight1984: Month of November

wight1984

Month of November

Dec 01, 2010 21:23

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Comments 17

black_rainbow_ December 1 2010, 21:54:56 UTC

I certainly do not think it is a bad idea for JSA claimants to give something back to the community for claiming money off the state. It has alot of advantages:

- Boost self worth/esteem.
- Boosts CV and helps fill that dreaded 'unemployed gap'.
- It is work experience.
- You can provide a recent job reference should you get an interview.
- If they like you, they might even offer you a permanent, paid job.

I was in a position where I was forced to leave my job earlier this year (constructive dismissal) and was unemployed for two months. I would have been more than happy to help out with a charity or at least give up some of my time to 'earn' my JSA.

Trouble with our society is that people seem to have this attitude where they are happy to take take take and not give anything back. So I think this is a great idea personally.

wight1984 December 1 2010, 22:30:35 UTC

I still think that, for the majority of people, there are lots of good reasons to doubt whether it will really help people's self-worth/esteem. I think it might for some but not for most.

When we're considering people who are used to white-collar work then I think them being potentially forced to do things like sweep the streets in order to get the money they need to live then I think we could be looking at something that may damage their self-worth.

As said, I think that's arguably classist but it's still true. Many people feel like they're 'too good' for that kind of job and forcing them to do it in order to survive will hurt their ego.

I do definitely think that it could be a good solution to the 'work gap' problem though. Depending on the type of work offered, it may not look brilliant on a CV but it can't look worse than having done absolutely nothing instead.

black_rainbow_ December 2 2010, 23:05:27 UTC

I am referring to the workshy long term unemployed here, not the ones who genuinely are looking for work before anybody starts! :p ( ... )

wight1984 December 2 2010, 23:33:46 UTC

I think everyone is aware that there are people who attempt to abuse the system. I think what some people are wary of is wrecking the system for those who aren't trying to abuse it in order to address benefit fraud. Whatever we implement has to work well for people who genuinely need some help; I don't think the priority is to exclude those who don't ( ... )

Thread 6

hirudo December 1 2010, 22:38:58 UTC

'Earning' JSA with compulsory labour? So the fact that I have (and will do in the future)work hard in a paying job and paid my NI means nothing anymore? National Insurance is a contract between the individual and the State: I work and pay my contributions every month, and then when I need help from the State I recieve it. The basic concept is no different than a private insurance policy. Why, therefore, should I be expected to do more just to 'earn' that basic fulfillment of contract?

Don't get me wrong- I would actually support a motion to put long term unemployed people into voluntary jobs or work placements that would actually benefit them by boosting their chances of finding the work that they want by giving them vital experience, but forced labour that has no obvious benefits to a claimant's job hunt will only make the unemployed feel bitter and criminalised.

wight1984 December 1 2010, 22:44:46 UTC

The point about NI contributions is a good one, although I think this is intended for the long-term unemployed more so than those who have only been unemployed for a short while. That probably means if will affect mostly those people who have run out of NI based job seekers and are on to their income based job seekers.

Though the fact that it only happens to long-term unemployed people potentially makes it feel like more of a 'punishment', so that may not be brilliant either.

It wouldn't be my first idea for improving the benefits system anyway; first they need to work on allowing people to claim benefits even whilst working part-time (otherwise there's no monetary incentive to take part-time work). Being able to voluntary work without it harming your benefits would also be nice.

Compulsory community service (which is potentially less like 'charity work' and more like the sort of thing assigned to criminals) does feel rather different.

hirudo December 1 2010, 22:52:14 UTC

You can claim benefits and work part-time; that's what I'm doing right now. You can work up to 16 hours before losing JSA, and if you lose that there are other benefits you can claim to help out. They even allow flexible signing on times for part-time workers.

wight1984 December 1 2010, 23:02:06 UTC

It's been a while since I checked it out (I'd accept part-time work anyway because I'd rather be working, so it doesn't affect me much) but, as far as I was aware, there are still benefits that get reduced for every pound you earn.

Maybe they're not JSA but they still seem to exist. It's an obviously mad system because you need to be earning significantly more than you were getting in benefits for it to be worth working (arguably a problem with means-tested benefits in general)

Thread 5

comfy_chair December 2 2010, 21:38:28 UTC

Back in the mid eighties there was what I felt was a really good job creation scheme, although strangely it was implemented by the Tories so I feel terrible for saying I like it. It was called the Community Programme and it involved part time community focused work over a period of 6 to 12 months for an increase in benefits.

The scheme included things like admin work for charities, building work for local community based projects, play workers, outdoor work such as forestry and gardening. What was notable about it was that it gave the people doing it some new skills, or enabled them to keep their current skills well practised, and it didn't affect other benefits. It wasn't just picking up litter.

I ran an environmental improvement scheme for a local community centre and it enabled me to get my first 'real' job afterwards.

wight1984 December 2 2010, 23:34:59 UTC

That does sound quite good.

I'd imagine it would get a much more positive response than the suggestion of 'compulsory community service' as well.

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