What would you do?
I'm experiencing a dilemma... I'd like everyone's honest insight into it, either in comments or mailed to me, whichever. ;) Thanks in advance, and please don't worry about offending me with your thoughts. I really am not leaning toward one side or the other at present.
Here's the sitch:
As you know, I've started a website project in my hometown designed to provide free ad-funded websites to subdivisions in my area. I plan to recruit the advertising from local businesses by offering them the ads at very inexpensive prices. I can afford to do this, and ideally I'd like to even donate some of the proceeds to the subdivisions who work with me, as my way of saying 'thank you' and 'keep it up!'.
I have pitched this idea to several subdivisions, and I now have four subdivision sites up and running. I'm pleased with my progress so far, except for one thing: my own subdivision isn't participating.
I have lived here for almost four years now. Our subdivision has existed since 1986. It has a pool, a clubhouse, a tennis court, two lakes and walking trails. There are about 500 homes and about 100 or so villas that have access to these amenities. None of these amenities are in the greatest of condition, but they get the job done.
The subdivision employs two people full time. One of them is an old woman named Betty who is probably at least 70. The other is her daughter, Jean, who is in her late 40s. They work in the clubhouse office from about 9 to 1 every day, except when they don't. Their main job seems to be handling bookings for the clubhouse, and possibly overseeing pool passes, but aside from that I'm not entirely sure what they do. I just know that Betty,who is possibly the nastiest old-lady woman I have ever met, is compensated for her work with a rent-free villa, and Jean, who is considerably nicer, doesn't live in the subdivision at all, and presumably draws some kind of salary for her time. It may be of interest to note, though not entirely pertinent, that Jean has an identical twin sister who does live in the subdivision and sits on the Board. However, Twin Sister of Jean is not as nice as Jean is, in my experience. In fact, she clearly favors her mother in personality. o.0
Anyway, when we moved in, Paula (our neighbor and friend from church) told us that the subdivision had a website. She tried to remember what it was, but couldn't find it. We rented the clubhouse for a party shortly after moving in and while I was handling the booking I happened to ask Jean about it. She told me then that she thought maybe a realtor had put one up, but that it had never really gone anywhere. I said I thought that was a shame, since we DO have a pool with hours, and a clubhouse with procedures, etc., in addition to the usual reasons why subdivisions post websites of their own. I told her that I wanted to do one, but she told me the office didn't have internet access. It was deemed 'too extravagant'.
When I had hammered out what I wanted to do for PCG, I called down to the office to ask who the HOA president was. Betty answered and when I explained what I wanted, she reacted defensively. "Is there a problem? Can I help you with something?" I guess they get a lot of that from the 'Villa People', who are largely of the over-50 set and apparently have little else to do besides call into the office and gripe about their neighbors. I assured her that no, I needed the name of the president... that I just wanted to propose something to him. Nothing to worry about. She gave me the name and number, but in a tone that clearly stated that she was not happy to do so. She kind of reminds me of an obnoxious little pekingese dog somehow. Sitting at her master's feet yapping threateningly at anyone who comes too close. That's kind of what she's like. The residents are the enemy and she seems to view herself as the last line of defense for the members of her precious HOA board.
I called the guy. He said, "Well, we've tried to get residents involved with a newsletter and stuff, but no one ever steps up to help. I have a hard time believing a website would take off either." I asked if I could at least drop off a proposal, and he said I could.. so I did.
Two weeks went by, and I heard nothing back.. So I called him just to ask whether he'd had a chance to read it and what he thought. This was on the heels of my Muirfield debacle, so I probably wrote about it at the time. I went in with such a fiercely angry attitude that I was determined to just be shot down everywhere. But my president surprised me by not turning me down flat. In fact, he sounded downright supportive. He liked the idea of the subdivision getting money back, especially. Money seems to be a big bottom line around here.
He asked me to come speak at the January HOA meeting. 2nd Monday of the Month. Okay. I went into action to prepare, endured much heartache as one computer broke and another had to be purchased, arranged for a projector, arranged for a screen. Packed it all up with handouts and all and drove down to the clubhouse on the appointed night in a nervous and excited flurry. And then I sat there for almost two hours, waiting for the rest of the meeting to show up, which it never did.
Being the sort of person I am, I tended to think the error was mine. I drove to the front of the subdivision to check the sign there -- which is not easy to see, incidentally -- and it said 'Recreation Board Meeting -- Next Monday, 7 PM'. I had been under the impression that I was to speak with the Homeowners' board, not the Recreation Board, but maybe I'd somehow mixed up my Mondays. I went home, planning to attend the next week.
I called the President the next weekend to discuss the presentation with him, and he sounded surprised to hear from me. He said, "Oh, that was last week." I reacted with surprise, and said I had THOUGHT that it was last week, but of course when no one showed had assumed I'd gotten it wrong. He said, "Well, no one ever goes to those meetings anyway."
Wow. Nice.
He did, however, rather hesitantly tell me to come on and talk at the Rec board meeting instead. Whatever. I arrived at the Clubhouse at 6:30 on the night in question. I was relieved to find Nasty Betty unlocking the door when I arrived, so I grabbed up my laptop and projector and screen and hurried in behind her. She turned and looked at me like I was a cockroach scuttling in across her newly-washed floor. "Ma'am, what are you doing here?" I explained my presence there. "Well, you may as well go home. We won't have a quorum tonight." I said, "But.. Mr. President told me to come." She sighed impatiently and repeated herself more slowly, as if it she believed I simply lacked the ability to comprehend her halting, raspy speech at its normal speed. "We..won't...have...a....quorum, Ma'am. We cannot make any decisions." I said, "This is just a presentation. There's no decision to be made yet." She looked like she'd like to slap me for being fresh-mouthed or something, but she just turned on her heel and marched down the hall to get chairs. I left her to it and tried to set up my own things as people started to arrive.
While Nasty Betty was by far the rudest of those who attended, most everyone else seemed uneasy at the sight of me. Even Mr. President, who arrived last and then introduced himself to me as if we'd never met before. He apparently had failed to alert the rest of the board that I would be an addition to the agenda, so there was some grumbling initially. When I was called-upon to speak, I was introduced as someone who 'had a possible solution to our newsletter problem'. I wasn't sure that was really a fair way to introduce me, but okay..whatever.
The presentation went badly. Part of this was my fault; I couldn't get my screen to stay open and therefore looked like an idiot and rendered the most effective part of my presentation completely useless. But my failure was not helped by the open hostility of the recreation board members, most of whom are 50+ themselves. They argued against the idea openly in front of me, raising concerns that they would be taxed on the advertising income (which would seem like a valid concern to me, if it wasn't that they're already taxed for income generated by guest pool passes and clubhouse rentals), that the prospect of a business arrangement with a resident seemed unwise (not that they minded the business arrangement already in play as they take my assessment fee every year and fail to report on how they use it), and perhaps most importantly, that the elderly Villa residents do not typically own computers and would not make use of the site.
In the end, I was patronizingly told, "We haven't said no yet." and sent on my way. I never heard back.
I also, however, never called back to ask, either. Moreover, I never attempted to attend another meeting. I was so angry and mortified that I just dropped it.
It's now ten months later, and this whole thing has stuck in my craw ever since. I have, in the meantime, scored alliances with other subdivisions and I'm currently revising the PCG site to make it more appropriate to my users' needs and more professional overall. We're doing okay, and yet I am still unsatisfied because my own subdivision is not making use of the program I created, which means *I* cannot make use of it. That frustrates me endlessly.
In talking to other residents in passing (at garage sales, etc.), I have the general impression that no one knows what's going on with the board. We receive no newsletter, no reports, nothing. We must receive some kind of reminder about our assessments every year, but that's it. Some I've spoken with have attempted to accomplish this or that with the board and were met with the same frustratingly negative treatment I experienced (so at least it wasn't just me), and I haven't actively sought out certain people to hear this. This just seems to be the general atmosphere in my subdivision.
In my bitterest moments on this subject, it has occurred to me that I can't think of any reason why I couldn't just bring up the stupid website on my own. It's not as if my subdivision is a corporation with a trademarked name, after all, or like I'd be competing in some way with the 'service' they provide. I contacted a lawyer about this, and was told that as long as there's nothing in the covenants and by-laws of my subdivision that states that I will not do such a thing, I'm perfectly free to do whatever I like -- even recruit advertising and keep the money for myself. Thus advised, I called down last week and asked for a copy of our By-laws.
I picked it up on Monday. I went down to the Clubhouse to pick it up and was treated to the usual Nasty Betty routine as she sulkily informed me that 'printing that thing off is expensive' and insinuatingly asked whether I hadn't received a copy when I moved in? Actually, no.. we weren't. Were we supposed to? Actually.. by law the association is supposed to make sure we are aware of our legal agreements with the subdivision PRIOR TO CLOSING, but as Nasty Betty said, "Well, we ask our owners to pass it along to the new residents." So apparently, not only are we not making this a priority, we can't even be bothered to hand off a copy of the thing to new residents ourselves. Instead, we demand that our residents keep track of their copy and turn it over to the next generation.
And for heaven's sake, the thing is maybe 20-30 pages. What is that, $2.50? Be smart, make sure all residents have a copy, and then charge them if the need another one!
Or... now, HERE is an idea... PUT UP A DAMNED WEBSITE and POST THEM THERE! Problem solved!
Ahem.. sorry.
Okay... so I have the covenants in hand now. I've read through them insofar as one can without falling asleep. They were drafted in 1986 and as far as I can tell they've not been amended since, so naturally nothing relating to the Internet or anything like it is mentioned. I am restricted in my choice of fencing and paint colors, and I am required to not post signs in my yard, but that's about it. So technically, I COULD go ahead and just bring up the website on my own and tell the Association where it can shove itself.
Problem is, that's pretty aggressive... at least, for me. Moreover, it's a big job to take on alone. I could get everyone's names and addresses from the tax information posted on the county's website, but promotion is sort of an issue. I would need to set the thing up and then circulate some kind of announcement letting people know it's there... which means the board members would hear about it and know what I'm doing. If they saw such a move as openly antagonistic (which, let's face it, it would be), they could enact their powers as a board against me. I would have to live as a model resident in order to avoid a lien on my house.
I have never followed up on this with Mr. President. I felt so betrayed by him at the meeting (did I mention that despite acting supportive over the phone, he was one of the most vigorous opponents of my proposal in the meeting?). I probably should have called. I have also never, as I said, attempted to attend another HOA meeting. Perhaps I should.
What would you do?
Here's the sitch:
As you know, I've started a website project in my hometown designed to provide free ad-funded websites to subdivisions in my area. I plan to recruit the advertising from local businesses by offering them the ads at very inexpensive prices. I can afford to do this, and ideally I'd like to even donate some of the proceeds to the subdivisions who work with me, as my way of saying 'thank you' and 'keep it up!'.
I have pitched this idea to several subdivisions, and I now have four subdivision sites up and running. I'm pleased with my progress so far, except for one thing: my own subdivision isn't participating.
I have lived here for almost four years now. Our subdivision has existed since 1986. It has a pool, a clubhouse, a tennis court, two lakes and walking trails. There are about 500 homes and about 100 or so villas that have access to these amenities. None of these amenities are in the greatest of condition, but they get the job done.
The subdivision employs two people full time. One of them is an old woman named Betty who is probably at least 70. The other is her daughter, Jean, who is in her late 40s. They work in the clubhouse office from about 9 to 1 every day, except when they don't. Their main job seems to be handling bookings for the clubhouse, and possibly overseeing pool passes, but aside from that I'm not entirely sure what they do. I just know that Betty,who is possibly the nastiest old-lady woman I have ever met, is compensated for her work with a rent-free villa, and Jean, who is considerably nicer, doesn't live in the subdivision at all, and presumably draws some kind of salary for her time. It may be of interest to note, though not entirely pertinent, that Jean has an identical twin sister who does live in the subdivision and sits on the Board. However, Twin Sister of Jean is not as nice as Jean is, in my experience. In fact, she clearly favors her mother in personality. o.0
Anyway, when we moved in, Paula (our neighbor and friend from church) told us that the subdivision had a website. She tried to remember what it was, but couldn't find it. We rented the clubhouse for a party shortly after moving in and while I was handling the booking I happened to ask Jean about it. She told me then that she thought maybe a realtor had put one up, but that it had never really gone anywhere. I said I thought that was a shame, since we DO have a pool with hours, and a clubhouse with procedures, etc., in addition to the usual reasons why subdivisions post websites of their own. I told her that I wanted to do one, but she told me the office didn't have internet access. It was deemed 'too extravagant'.
When I had hammered out what I wanted to do for PCG, I called down to the office to ask who the HOA president was. Betty answered and when I explained what I wanted, she reacted defensively. "Is there a problem? Can I help you with something?" I guess they get a lot of that from the 'Villa People', who are largely of the over-50 set and apparently have little else to do besides call into the office and gripe about their neighbors. I assured her that no, I needed the name of the president... that I just wanted to propose something to him. Nothing to worry about. She gave me the name and number, but in a tone that clearly stated that she was not happy to do so. She kind of reminds me of an obnoxious little pekingese dog somehow. Sitting at her master's feet yapping threateningly at anyone who comes too close. That's kind of what she's like. The residents are the enemy and she seems to view herself as the last line of defense for the members of her precious HOA board.
I called the guy. He said, "Well, we've tried to get residents involved with a newsletter and stuff, but no one ever steps up to help. I have a hard time believing a website would take off either." I asked if I could at least drop off a proposal, and he said I could.. so I did.
Two weeks went by, and I heard nothing back.. So I called him just to ask whether he'd had a chance to read it and what he thought. This was on the heels of my Muirfield debacle, so I probably wrote about it at the time. I went in with such a fiercely angry attitude that I was determined to just be shot down everywhere. But my president surprised me by not turning me down flat. In fact, he sounded downright supportive. He liked the idea of the subdivision getting money back, especially. Money seems to be a big bottom line around here.
He asked me to come speak at the January HOA meeting. 2nd Monday of the Month. Okay. I went into action to prepare, endured much heartache as one computer broke and another had to be purchased, arranged for a projector, arranged for a screen. Packed it all up with handouts and all and drove down to the clubhouse on the appointed night in a nervous and excited flurry. And then I sat there for almost two hours, waiting for the rest of the meeting to show up, which it never did.
Being the sort of person I am, I tended to think the error was mine. I drove to the front of the subdivision to check the sign there -- which is not easy to see, incidentally -- and it said 'Recreation Board Meeting -- Next Monday, 7 PM'. I had been under the impression that I was to speak with the Homeowners' board, not the Recreation Board, but maybe I'd somehow mixed up my Mondays. I went home, planning to attend the next week.
I called the President the next weekend to discuss the presentation with him, and he sounded surprised to hear from me. He said, "Oh, that was last week." I reacted with surprise, and said I had THOUGHT that it was last week, but of course when no one showed had assumed I'd gotten it wrong. He said, "Well, no one ever goes to those meetings anyway."
Wow. Nice.
He did, however, rather hesitantly tell me to come on and talk at the Rec board meeting instead. Whatever. I arrived at the Clubhouse at 6:30 on the night in question. I was relieved to find Nasty Betty unlocking the door when I arrived, so I grabbed up my laptop and projector and screen and hurried in behind her. She turned and looked at me like I was a cockroach scuttling in across her newly-washed floor. "Ma'am, what are you doing here?" I explained my presence there. "Well, you may as well go home. We won't have a quorum tonight." I said, "But.. Mr. President told me to come." She sighed impatiently and repeated herself more slowly, as if it she believed I simply lacked the ability to comprehend her halting, raspy speech at its normal speed. "We..won't...have...a....quorum, Ma'am. We cannot make any decisions." I said, "This is just a presentation. There's no decision to be made yet." She looked like she'd like to slap me for being fresh-mouthed or something, but she just turned on her heel and marched down the hall to get chairs. I left her to it and tried to set up my own things as people started to arrive.
While Nasty Betty was by far the rudest of those who attended, most everyone else seemed uneasy at the sight of me. Even Mr. President, who arrived last and then introduced himself to me as if we'd never met before. He apparently had failed to alert the rest of the board that I would be an addition to the agenda, so there was some grumbling initially. When I was called-upon to speak, I was introduced as someone who 'had a possible solution to our newsletter problem'. I wasn't sure that was really a fair way to introduce me, but okay..whatever.
The presentation went badly. Part of this was my fault; I couldn't get my screen to stay open and therefore looked like an idiot and rendered the most effective part of my presentation completely useless. But my failure was not helped by the open hostility of the recreation board members, most of whom are 50+ themselves. They argued against the idea openly in front of me, raising concerns that they would be taxed on the advertising income (which would seem like a valid concern to me, if it wasn't that they're already taxed for income generated by guest pool passes and clubhouse rentals), that the prospect of a business arrangement with a resident seemed unwise (not that they minded the business arrangement already in play as they take my assessment fee every year and fail to report on how they use it), and perhaps most importantly, that the elderly Villa residents do not typically own computers and would not make use of the site.
In the end, I was patronizingly told, "We haven't said no yet." and sent on my way. I never heard back.
I also, however, never called back to ask, either. Moreover, I never attempted to attend another meeting. I was so angry and mortified that I just dropped it.
It's now ten months later, and this whole thing has stuck in my craw ever since. I have, in the meantime, scored alliances with other subdivisions and I'm currently revising the PCG site to make it more appropriate to my users' needs and more professional overall. We're doing okay, and yet I am still unsatisfied because my own subdivision is not making use of the program I created, which means *I* cannot make use of it. That frustrates me endlessly.
In talking to other residents in passing (at garage sales, etc.), I have the general impression that no one knows what's going on with the board. We receive no newsletter, no reports, nothing. We must receive some kind of reminder about our assessments every year, but that's it. Some I've spoken with have attempted to accomplish this or that with the board and were met with the same frustratingly negative treatment I experienced (so at least it wasn't just me), and I haven't actively sought out certain people to hear this. This just seems to be the general atmosphere in my subdivision.
In my bitterest moments on this subject, it has occurred to me that I can't think of any reason why I couldn't just bring up the stupid website on my own. It's not as if my subdivision is a corporation with a trademarked name, after all, or like I'd be competing in some way with the 'service' they provide. I contacted a lawyer about this, and was told that as long as there's nothing in the covenants and by-laws of my subdivision that states that I will not do such a thing, I'm perfectly free to do whatever I like -- even recruit advertising and keep the money for myself. Thus advised, I called down last week and asked for a copy of our By-laws.
I picked it up on Monday. I went down to the Clubhouse to pick it up and was treated to the usual Nasty Betty routine as she sulkily informed me that 'printing that thing off is expensive' and insinuatingly asked whether I hadn't received a copy when I moved in? Actually, no.. we weren't. Were we supposed to? Actually.. by law the association is supposed to make sure we are aware of our legal agreements with the subdivision PRIOR TO CLOSING, but as Nasty Betty said, "Well, we ask our owners to pass it along to the new residents." So apparently, not only are we not making this a priority, we can't even be bothered to hand off a copy of the thing to new residents ourselves. Instead, we demand that our residents keep track of their copy and turn it over to the next generation.
And for heaven's sake, the thing is maybe 20-30 pages. What is that, $2.50? Be smart, make sure all residents have a copy, and then charge them if the need another one!
Or... now, HERE is an idea... PUT UP A DAMNED WEBSITE and POST THEM THERE! Problem solved!
Ahem.. sorry.
Okay... so I have the covenants in hand now. I've read through them insofar as one can without falling asleep. They were drafted in 1986 and as far as I can tell they've not been amended since, so naturally nothing relating to the Internet or anything like it is mentioned. I am restricted in my choice of fencing and paint colors, and I am required to not post signs in my yard, but that's about it. So technically, I COULD go ahead and just bring up the website on my own and tell the Association where it can shove itself.
Problem is, that's pretty aggressive... at least, for me. Moreover, it's a big job to take on alone. I could get everyone's names and addresses from the tax information posted on the county's website, but promotion is sort of an issue. I would need to set the thing up and then circulate some kind of announcement letting people know it's there... which means the board members would hear about it and know what I'm doing. If they saw such a move as openly antagonistic (which, let's face it, it would be), they could enact their powers as a board against me. I would have to live as a model resident in order to avoid a lien on my house.
I have never followed up on this with Mr. President. I felt so betrayed by him at the meeting (did I mention that despite acting supportive over the phone, he was one of the most vigorous opponents of my proposal in the meeting?). I probably should have called. I have also never, as I said, attempted to attend another HOA meeting. Perhaps I should.
What would you do?