Gou Jian, Wen Zhong, Fan Li: mainly eps 17-20 thoughts

[flemmings]

So feliciter remarked in response to my rewatchI'm rewatching the Wen Zhong bits and feeling sorrier for him because, let's face it, Gou Jian's attitude towards him can be summed up by 1) "I can't hear you"; 2) Fan Li next to him, Wen Zhong one step below them; 3) oh-Wen-Zhong-there-you-are-in-the-stocks-bidding-me-take-care-of-myself-*turns around to the

Comments

[feliciter]

Very detailed analysis! (am ashamed to say that have only watched ep 19 3 times, once for fic)

I fully agree that Gou Jian definitely holds Wen Zhong's opinion in high regard, but the way Uncle Ming plays it there's always the sense, which is much less obvious with young pretty diplomatic Fan Li, that this guest official may not be here to stay (and historically his distrust didn't completely manifest until he felt that he had no more need of Wen Zhong).

why he calls himself 我

He did it in the Great Hall, when he asks Fu Chai: "我想问问吴王是否能言而有信?" which I read as "*I* (man to man, no longer a king) wish to ask (you as) the King of Wu if you can be a man of your word)", to which the answer is "Of course! Doesn't the proclamation say so? :D"

send one advisor to try to persuade the other one to support the king's
positionas you say, it's more to allay Gou Jian's mental misgivings than Wen Zhong's

[flemmings]

He did it in the Great Hall, when he asks Fu Chai: "我想问问吴王是否能言而有信?"

And disk is now repackaged so I can't go and check what he calls himself therefter. Sigh- back to Tudou's stop-start.

but I see that look more as "oh there you are, what a (pleasant? - hence faint upward quirk of lip)surprise (query in voice),As I see it (it probably is fifteen times now)it's 'Wen (pause) Zhong' slight stun, WZ's line, Gou Jian drops eyes, cheek quirk as he looks back to Ya Yu (who he was going to when he saw Wen Zhong on his left) and 'I'm not your king any more.' Not sure what to make of cheek quirk on fourteenth iteration, but Gou Jian doesn't seem in any state to be ironic at that moment

[feliciter]

what he calls himself therefter

Reverts back to 寡人 until he addresses his people outside the door.

Gou Jian doesn't seem in any state to be ironic at that moment.

Alas, the planes of Uncle Ming's face are such that I am quite besotted confused by his expression at such crucial points.

*that look* in Fu Chai's eyes when Gou Jian leaves the hall

Looked to me like: That arrogant bastard whom I just defeated fair and square, who ever heard of surrendering while lounging without kneeling and just dropping your sword like a gardening implement. But he's crying at least and he looks so delicious when suffering, and that's a good start so I shall have many more opportunities to break him in future ^_^v

If Hu Jun had Uncle Ming's eyes the screen would spontaneously combust.

[flemmings]

so I shall have many more opportunities to break him in future ^_^v

If only he'd followed through on that. But no. Left it to his Chancellor again and then disavowed all knowledge of what had been done. Or was it that he simply lost interest after dragging Gou Jian at his horse's tail? Fu Chai is a loss both as a villain and as a seme.

If Hu Jun had Uncle Ming's eyes the screen would spontaneously combust.

I'd be willing to take that chance. I was thinking the other day that *this* is why Woxin isn't Japanese. In Japan both protagonists would have been either (BL friendly version) equally hot, yin and sinister, or (shounen with female fanservice) Uncle Ming and strapping manly bluff buff male with a Pure Heart.

Whatever, Uncle Ming's antagonist would not have been Pumpkinhead Teddybear. Or at least, Pumpkinhead would have let his hair down more.

[paleaswater]

Yes oh yes, what you say about Gou Jian's reaction upon seeing Wen Zhong in the stocks is right on. Though I think Gou Jian just like everyone else could never quite get the measure of Wen Zhong. He is just totally outside of everyone's experience. By all logic his head should have been chopped off many years ago.

With Shi Mai I think it also neutralizes him. Otherwise he might take Gou Jian's selection of the regent as a slight.

[flemmings]

By all logic his head should have been chopped off many years ago.

Really, yes. Last-minute reprieve from death with King of Chu, last-second reprieve with king of Wu, got-lucky with King of Wu again (when WZX finds him in Bo Pi's tent.) Huge irony, if we follow history, that it wasn't the arbitrary kings of Chu and Wu who did chop him.

But I'm very happy with the notion that series Gou Jian never really gets a handle on what he's all about. Because I don't have a handle either...

[rasetsunyo]

I wonder if Ya Yu marrying Xi Shi to Fan Li was partly to tie him down to Yue. Seems rather an excessive gesture (adopting her as sister and everything) just to settle a commoner girl down.

[flemmings]

I thought it was hetero-normativity myself. ^_^

No, seriously, tying him down to Wu was surely a large part of it. But I felt there's a touch of, well, doing in human terms what Gou Jian was doing with his uhh papers/ scrolls: tidying things up. Ya Yu knows they're leaving and thinks Fan Li will be left behind and look! he's nearing thirty (or is over 25, whichever) and he's not married! who will care for our advisor when we're gone? A man should be married and here's this (supposedly) stunningly beautiful girl who thinks he's the bee's knees and he saved her life and who will look after *her* since she has no family- look, let's marry them to each other so *that* little problem is settled.