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[x_forgetromeo]

Alright, so, I had to write a paper for my English Composition 102 class about an ideology shared by a community that I am part of that I would like to see change. I chose the Criminal Minds fandom as my community, and the way that female characters are viewed as my topic. I sent out a request for people on livejournal and tumblr to let me know

Comments

[drunkencarousal]

Hmm, this is really interesting. I've always been more focused on the treatment of women within the show, as opposed to how they're actually perceived by fans, but now I'm getting that the two are very linked. I think the writers concentrate too much on making the female characters likable (which really isn't surprisingly, as its a lot harder to get audiences to accept female characters than male ones), and as such they become progressively more submissive. Elle's trajectory as a character is pretty notable in this regard - she was defiant, and her character paid for it. That kind of thing feeds misogyny in a fandom. I hoping that pattern changes with Seaver, I want her to go against the grain and piss some people off.

[x_forgetromeo]

I'm generally focused on the in-show treatment as well, but the assignment I was given for this paper had me look at it from a different perspective. :)

It's definitely a chicken and the egg situation - fan reaction feeds the writers and the writers feed the fan reaction. I think there's a pretty equal blame for most of the characters - including Haley Hotchner and Erin Strauss - between the writers and the fan reaction.

I think Seaver is an exception to this, in a way: The circumstances surrounding her entrance caused people to hate her before she even showed up on the show. There are people who refuse to give her a chance, even though she's proven in the past few episodes that she deserves her place on the team and the show. It falls a lot more on the fans here, I think.

But yes - the fact that women have to become more submissive (not entirely submissive, because I don't really feel like any of our ladies are entirely submissive) and more gentle in order to be accepted by fans is a huge problem.

[x_forgetromeo]

I'm honestly confusing myself trying to answer this question. I keep thinking about it and coming to different conclusions.

The amount of total hatred for Elle is out of proportion for anything the writers did with her character, defiance or not. Same with Seaver. And the fact that JJ and Emily had to not be as gender-role-bending to be accepted by fans - I don't think that's on the writers, either.

Strauss and Haley, I will put mostly on the writers. Because they have both been more like props than people. However, the excessive levels of hatred aimed at both of them from the fans is too, too much.

[lawless523]

It's the fault of society, not the fans or the fandom. Even if it wants to -- and I'm not at all convinced it wants to -- Hollywood and the media can only push people's attitudes forward so far

[x_forgetromeo]

Are fans not a part of society?

Elle was suffering from severe PTSD. Hotch sent her into a situation that was reenacting her trauma - sending her in to a house to wait for someone to come in and violate her. They didn't have her back when she needed it, and it was callous on the part of everyone involved to ask her to do this. Her reaction, while not the thing that she should have done, was understandable given her circumstances and the fact that no one understood the severity of her trauma. She pushed the team away because she was in a constant state of panic, and the one time she did let someone in - Reid, in "Aftermath" - it got thrown in her face because of just how much he did not get it.

I'm not getting into your complaint about JJ and Seaver looking alike again, because we've debated this point several times and nothing ever comes of it.

[lawless523]

Fans reflect society. All I'm saying is that if you expect TV shows to push advance society ahead by much, you're going to be disappointed.

I acknowledged that the team let Elle down. Just because she has PTSD doesn't, IMO, give her a pass on this score. It sounds a bit like saying she should be given a break or held to a lower standard, instead of the usual higher one, because she's female. I'd be as critical of any of the other characters for taking the law into their own hands.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were the same person I had the discussion with before about Seaver and JJ's appearance, but that's not the only objection I expressed to the inclusion of her character. Considering that most of my comment supported the view of the female characters you advocate, why the hostile tone?

[x_forgetromeo]

I apologize for the hostile tone; this is a conversation I've had with many, many people who are generally just as hostile, so I'm defensive.

[matociquala]

Right here, you have nailed down why I don't read comments in the fan communities anymore.

I love the women on this show. I love that they are tough and competent and just as capable as the men. I love that Hotch is the team Mom. I love that Reid is the designated Damsel in Distress. I love that the obligatory Rape Survivor With Intimacy Issues IS A GUY, and I love that Will quit his job to stay home with the kid.

I know a lot of other women/fans who feel the same way--but they mostly stay out of the fancoms because of the level of misogyny.

[odainath]

Great essay! You are absolutely correct with how most of the CM ladies are viewed. Too distant and they're villianised as too mannish, too maternal and they become clingy. It makes me absoultely livid!

[cammieluvr]

I completely agree with all of this. The majority of the comments I've read about the women in the show are all about how "kick-ass" they all are.

And I dislike Seaver, but not because of her character (or the actress). I just think it's implausible that a cadet (now recently graduated cadet) could immediately join a small, elite FBI team, no matter what her background/back-story.