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[x_forgetromeo]

Alright, so, I had to write a paper for my English Composition 102 class about an ideology shared by a community that I am part of that I would like to see change. I chose the Criminal Minds fandom as my community, and the way that female characters are viewed as my topic. I sent out a request for people on livejournal and tumblr to let me know

Comments

[iamtheliquorr]

I will probably have a long drawn-out response upon later reflection, but for now, my thoughts:

hfc I love you for this. This isn't just a problem in CM fandom, either--it's a problem in all fandom. And it's hard to really enjoy fandom if I or someone else has to keep explaining feminism 101 to people who don't understaaaaaand why describing a female character (no matter how unsympathetic she is) as a bitch or slut is badI will say the writing of CM is definitely flawed when it comes to its female characters. It tries, but it never seems to hit the mark. Despite being onto some really good things, like the way they play with gender roles and archetypes and whatnot, the women always come in second to the men when it comes to screentime, narrative weight, and plots. Or should I say the white guys, since of all the dudes on the show except maybe Rossi, Morgan has gotten the least attention, and he's been there from the beginning while Rossi only showed up in S3.But that is another can of worms I don't even want to open, so I'll just say

[infinitlight]

I think the two are connected. I think Prentiss was initially shown to be extremely professional (I have in fact heard the description "suck-up" used in fandom, more than once), and fans definitely latched onto her more as they saw both her attitude to victims and to taking care of the team (both stereotypically "feminine" virtues, as opposed to the far more "masculine" trait of focusing on a career).

[bluerosefairy]

I do not have the words for how much I love that you've written this. Far too many times, I've tried to express an opinion amounting to "I like Seaver" or "Haley is a brilliant character" or "JJ is a badass", and been shouted down for daring to like them. I honestly cannot understand why women on this show (other than Garcia, who seems to be the perfect Manic Pixie Dream Girl and I kind of wish she had flaws) are so hated by the fandom. All of the reasons you've given are reasons that myself - and a lot of other fans I know - stay away from the main hubs of CM fandom. We're tired of being screamed at for expressing a different opinion, for thinking that maybe Seaver is a good character or Emily's ambition was a good thing.

(And jesus, don't start fandom on the double standard of slagging off on the women, but if one single solitary unkind word is said about Spencer Reid, the pitchforks come out.)

[infinitlight]

I totally agree with so much of this. I've noticed fandom's dislike of Elle has grown stronger over the last couple years, although I assume this is due to many Elle fans no longer participating in fandom (several of my fandom friends from a few years back have no interest in discussing the show anymore).

I have heard all of those complaints about her before, and no doubt will again. I must be naive, because I continue to be surprised to hear people describe her as "cold" (her empathy for victims seems to be lost on a lot of fans).

The love for JJ increased tenfold once there was some hint of maternal instinct for people to latch onto.

I would also (sarcastically and perhaps abrasively) add that love for J.J. in fandom increased exponentially once J.J. was being taken off the show, and being seen to be a fan of J.J. was fashionable.

[iamtheliquorr]

I really want to know why people are still talking about Elle, anyway. I think the only time anyone ever mentioned her again on the show was Garcia, briefly, in S3. I don't see why anyone would bring her up again, especially people who hate her, unless they just want to bash for the sake of bashing and that's weak, even for fandom.

Completely agreed about JJ as well.

[x_forgetromeo]

I think people talk about Elle still because a lot of people are just getting into the fandom. Most of the people I talk to have just started watching the show in the past few months, and a lot of people are constantly watching reruns (which honestly...is better than watching current episodes). Why people feel the need to talk about how awful they think she is, though, escapes me.

[iamtheliquorr]

ahh, I guess I sort of get that--I only got into the show through reruns (and then I marathoned it all over Christmas break lol). I just assumed most fans would've watched as it aired, but you know what they say about assumptions...

And yes, idg why people love to talk about things they hate. I try to avoid it, b/c fandom is supposed to fun, and bashing characters is not my idea of fun.

[ficdirectory]

Really interesting work. I'm glad you stressed that not all your responses were negative, because it would be easy to assume that reading the paper :) Having said that, I think your point was well-made and it does make people think, which is the mark of great writing.

[ficdirectory]

I also want to say that my opinions of the characters have a lot to do with my opinion of the actors portraying them.

For example, I've been a fan of AJ Cook's for over a decade. So my support of her talent definitely extends beyond motherhood, and is because I have seen how crazy talented she is.

Also, my love for Emily Prentiss recently increased tenfold because I watched some interviews with Paget and discovered just how loveably awkward she is. I adore that and it makes me admire the way she plays such a serious role.

I know next to nothing about Lola Glaudini which contributes to my feelings of indifference toward her.

I love Garcia in large part because I appreciate Kirsten Vangsness the person. Her theatre background, crazy fashion, loving heart - all increase my affinity toward her