Love... illogical?
This is another one of those FB debate. Everyone knows FB is srsbns or whatever.
--
"It wasn't logic, it was love."
-- Vicky Doe
Me: Is it too redundant to say that's dumb?
Person A: Spock would disagree with this comment.
Me: I think Spock would reverse the two and state that "it wasn't love, it was logic."
Person B: I would say that love is logical, even when it appears to be spontanious and "magical". We quickly discern whether someone may prove to be an attractive mate based on there appearance, we socially interact with them and there perspectives a...nd views seems enlightening or acceptable, and we may even find ourselves smitten with there sharp wit and humor....but all of these things don't "just happen", because for every partner we claim to fall deeply in love with, there are a billion others we have turned a blind eye towards.
Me: There's a difference between choosing someone who's a good mate and falling in love. Especially these days where we are removed from nature, the rules no longer apply to human society; all survive.
Person B: ^ I couldn't disagree more. I think that "falling in love" is a concept we attribute to ourselves or others when we have found someone who fulfills all the catagories of a promising or potential mate. Is it more likely that you fall in lov...e with a hobo, or someone who you percieve to be physically beautiful, mentally intruqing, and who acts in ways that you find appealing and desirable? I would argue that you would most likely go for the ladder, because that type of person possess more oppertunities for survival, security, and a more healthy relationship. We are not removed from nature, our instincts and behaviors reflect our animal instincts, but just because we restrain certain urges, that doesn't mean they aren't there. Take away rules from society, and choas shall follow. why? because we are animals.
Me: "falling in love" is emotional and hence illogical.
Love is not just lust, which is animalistic, carnal desire.
When you say "hobo" do you mean somebody who is simply homeless or somebody who is homeless and also hooked on crack, dirty etc... etc? I and several others I know who are great, strong intelligent people have happened into such a situation where they had no place of their own to sleep except maybe a car or a friend's house. This is more a matter of being well of monetarily than characteristic as the economy in the US is in shambles; rent is too high and wages are too low.
You're right, I do look for physical traits, i prefer curvy woman that look good for child baring who at least make a fair attempt at eating healthy and take care of their bodies. Who also, are stable mentally and emotionally. Furthermore, ...they must also be intelligent and not shallow and materialistic, caught up in (other people's) drama; think for themselves.
However, I feel that I'm one of few people these days who look at people in mind of if they would be a good mate, who with reproducing would better society and our race as a species rather than, "hey, she's got nice tits, let's fuck... oh shit, we're dumbasses and didn't use a condom." Many of their other traits may be terrible; I believe we're de-evolving. There's no more survival of the fittest, the weak no longer die, instead they're raised and forced to function in society, contributing nothing and bring the rest of us down.
Unfortunately, due to a few physical traits breeding through despite any other issues there are many stupid people who, without the walls of this technological age can not function. I'm not perfect myself, I know but at least I'm making an ...attempt to educate myself and learn how to basic things like grow food.
Without the rules of society, yes, all hell will break lose. But, I think that's greatly due to the fact that many people are taught from the start that they should just go out and buy everything, without stuff they can not be happy; they need instant gratification.
Nobody really cooks these days, most people have no idea how to survive without everything being handed to them. We're taught that we should be greedy and selfish, money and cool clothing is a symbol of status. That's all completely wrong. We need to work together, for ourselves and for one another.
Many other animals do understand this; look at primates, they've got tools and culture as well. However, they only have the ones with the best qualities survive.
With humans, weak people reproduce with others and the chain continues and the...y start to lose track of what qualities it takes to really survive.
Love becomes illogical at this point because it becomes more of something like two people both enjoy watching MTV and other useless, shallow interests getting together, perhaps because they can't find anybody else.
Person B: I agree with you that alot of people are conditioned to be selfish and that most people these days lack basic survival skills such as cooking etc. However, I disgaree that love is illogical. I believe that it is very logical when it happens.... Your example about love being illgical, where say two people enjoying the same tv shows and other useless shallow interests...has two primary flaws. 1. Maybe that is not love, but just a false perception of it shared by two people. and 2. What if enjoying the small useless things together with somebody else constitues as love for other people or couples, just not for you? I believe love is logical because I believe that thoughts come before emotions...thus when a person falls in love, he or she tend to feel more deeply for another human being as a result of thinking about them. I think that when we fall for someone, it is usually a lot more logical then it may appear to others and even ourselves.
Me: Just because one thinks about somebody or something doesn't mean it's logical, that's just what is on their mind. How often do we think about things or people and we don't necessarily love them, or like them, perhaps we don't feel anything at all or we even dislike or hate.
Person B: Ok, fair point. I guess what I was trying to say was that there is more thought behind love then we may intially realize, and your right, its not always logical. I suppose I have walked away with a different point of view. Ah, the wonders of facebook.
Me: I neglected to post this months ago but, I do agree with you about your point 2. It may be possible that those simple, superficial things could be love between the two people. Assuming they agree on other vital issues though, weather implicitly or implied. I mean stuff like monogamy, marriage, kids etc. While this isn't love, it is part of a relationship and things just won't work out. But, I guess it's still possible to love somebody even if it'd never work out. Maybe that's just a false emotion in that case or only felt because there's nobody else around to feel for. But, would that be love or loneliness?
I hope this makes some sense, if not, just ignore it. :D
Person B:No I understand where your coming from, but I still think love is much more logical, even if it may appear illogical to ourselves or to people outside the relationship. And yeah, just because we think about a person, may not seem logical, b...ut i believe it is. Your brain thinks about someone for a reason, even when we dont know the reason ourselves so we label it "random" "weird" "illogical". etc. The reason I say this, is because I strongly believe that there are powerful scientific influences when it comes to attraction, love, and mating. I do not believe that love, "just happens", even when people swear thats exactly what happened. For instance, you ever meet a person and were instantly attracted to them, physically and on some unspoken way, spiritually. Maybe you make intimate eye contact, and this person smiles warmly, and you begin to feel warm inside, and you cant help but think about this person for the rest of the day. Many would claim that these types of feelings could be an indication of love. However, nobody thinks, "as people, we release phormones from the pores of our skin...these phormones are then inhaled by other people and for some, it may trigger a 'pleasant smell' mechanism within us, and if this is also combined with a visual attraction of the other person, messages to our brain signal that they 'like' what they smell and see thus making a person feel some of the feelings I described earlier. And our mind is remarkably intricate, we form new neural pathways based on the actions conducted by the other person and this influences our decisions as well a flood our system with chemicals based on what mood we're in. My point is, there is a scientific explanation behind love, even if we dont understand it, it doesnt mean its untrue. Science, like love, may seem illogical, but it is.
in addition, claiming, "love is illogical" implies that there is no explanation behind it, or that we cannot explain it. Our bodies operate like computers, and whether we want to believe it or not, we are much more mechanical then we may li...ke to believe. Even in terms of love, I believe it is closely associated to mating as a construct of evolution. We are like machines, and just because someone may behave irrationally or have "random streams of though" that dont make sense to the person thinking them, that doesnt mean there is "no reason" behind them.
--
"It wasn't logic, it was love."
-- Vicky Doe
Me: Is it too redundant to say that's dumb?
Person A: Spock would disagree with this comment.
Me: I think Spock would reverse the two and state that "it wasn't love, it was logic."
Person B: I would say that love is logical, even when it appears to be spontanious and "magical". We quickly discern whether someone may prove to be an attractive mate based on there appearance, we socially interact with them and there perspectives a...nd views seems enlightening or acceptable, and we may even find ourselves smitten with there sharp wit and humor....but all of these things don't "just happen", because for every partner we claim to fall deeply in love with, there are a billion others we have turned a blind eye towards.
Me: There's a difference between choosing someone who's a good mate and falling in love. Especially these days where we are removed from nature, the rules no longer apply to human society; all survive.
Person B: ^ I couldn't disagree more. I think that "falling in love" is a concept we attribute to ourselves or others when we have found someone who fulfills all the catagories of a promising or potential mate. Is it more likely that you fall in lov...e with a hobo, or someone who you percieve to be physically beautiful, mentally intruqing, and who acts in ways that you find appealing and desirable? I would argue that you would most likely go for the ladder, because that type of person possess more oppertunities for survival, security, and a more healthy relationship. We are not removed from nature, our instincts and behaviors reflect our animal instincts, but just because we restrain certain urges, that doesn't mean they aren't there. Take away rules from society, and choas shall follow. why? because we are animals.
Me: "falling in love" is emotional and hence illogical.
Love is not just lust, which is animalistic, carnal desire.
When you say "hobo" do you mean somebody who is simply homeless or somebody who is homeless and also hooked on crack, dirty etc... etc? I and several others I know who are great, strong intelligent people have happened into such a situation where they had no place of their own to sleep except maybe a car or a friend's house. This is more a matter of being well of monetarily than characteristic as the economy in the US is in shambles; rent is too high and wages are too low.
You're right, I do look for physical traits, i prefer curvy woman that look good for child baring who at least make a fair attempt at eating healthy and take care of their bodies. Who also, are stable mentally and emotionally. Furthermore, ...they must also be intelligent and not shallow and materialistic, caught up in (other people's) drama; think for themselves.
However, I feel that I'm one of few people these days who look at people in mind of if they would be a good mate, who with reproducing would better society and our race as a species rather than, "hey, she's got nice tits, let's fuck... oh shit, we're dumbasses and didn't use a condom." Many of their other traits may be terrible; I believe we're de-evolving. There's no more survival of the fittest, the weak no longer die, instead they're raised and forced to function in society, contributing nothing and bring the rest of us down.
Unfortunately, due to a few physical traits breeding through despite any other issues there are many stupid people who, without the walls of this technological age can not function. I'm not perfect myself, I know but at least I'm making an ...attempt to educate myself and learn how to basic things like grow food.
Without the rules of society, yes, all hell will break lose. But, I think that's greatly due to the fact that many people are taught from the start that they should just go out and buy everything, without stuff they can not be happy; they need instant gratification.
Nobody really cooks these days, most people have no idea how to survive without everything being handed to them. We're taught that we should be greedy and selfish, money and cool clothing is a symbol of status. That's all completely wrong. We need to work together, for ourselves and for one another.
Many other animals do understand this; look at primates, they've got tools and culture as well. However, they only have the ones with the best qualities survive.
With humans, weak people reproduce with others and the chain continues and the...y start to lose track of what qualities it takes to really survive.
Love becomes illogical at this point because it becomes more of something like two people both enjoy watching MTV and other useless, shallow interests getting together, perhaps because they can't find anybody else.
Person B: I agree with you that alot of people are conditioned to be selfish and that most people these days lack basic survival skills such as cooking etc. However, I disgaree that love is illogical. I believe that it is very logical when it happens.... Your example about love being illgical, where say two people enjoying the same tv shows and other useless shallow interests...has two primary flaws. 1. Maybe that is not love, but just a false perception of it shared by two people. and 2. What if enjoying the small useless things together with somebody else constitues as love for other people or couples, just not for you? I believe love is logical because I believe that thoughts come before emotions...thus when a person falls in love, he or she tend to feel more deeply for another human being as a result of thinking about them. I think that when we fall for someone, it is usually a lot more logical then it may appear to others and even ourselves.
Me: Just because one thinks about somebody or something doesn't mean it's logical, that's just what is on their mind. How often do we think about things or people and we don't necessarily love them, or like them, perhaps we don't feel anything at all or we even dislike or hate.
Person B: Ok, fair point. I guess what I was trying to say was that there is more thought behind love then we may intially realize, and your right, its not always logical. I suppose I have walked away with a different point of view. Ah, the wonders of facebook.
Me: I neglected to post this months ago but, I do agree with you about your point 2. It may be possible that those simple, superficial things could be love between the two people. Assuming they agree on other vital issues though, weather implicitly or implied. I mean stuff like monogamy, marriage, kids etc. While this isn't love, it is part of a relationship and things just won't work out. But, I guess it's still possible to love somebody even if it'd never work out. Maybe that's just a false emotion in that case or only felt because there's nobody else around to feel for. But, would that be love or loneliness?
I hope this makes some sense, if not, just ignore it. :D
Person B:No I understand where your coming from, but I still think love is much more logical, even if it may appear illogical to ourselves or to people outside the relationship. And yeah, just because we think about a person, may not seem logical, b...ut i believe it is. Your brain thinks about someone for a reason, even when we dont know the reason ourselves so we label it "random" "weird" "illogical". etc. The reason I say this, is because I strongly believe that there are powerful scientific influences when it comes to attraction, love, and mating. I do not believe that love, "just happens", even when people swear thats exactly what happened. For instance, you ever meet a person and were instantly attracted to them, physically and on some unspoken way, spiritually. Maybe you make intimate eye contact, and this person smiles warmly, and you begin to feel warm inside, and you cant help but think about this person for the rest of the day. Many would claim that these types of feelings could be an indication of love. However, nobody thinks, "as people, we release phormones from the pores of our skin...these phormones are then inhaled by other people and for some, it may trigger a 'pleasant smell' mechanism within us, and if this is also combined with a visual attraction of the other person, messages to our brain signal that they 'like' what they smell and see thus making a person feel some of the feelings I described earlier. And our mind is remarkably intricate, we form new neural pathways based on the actions conducted by the other person and this influences our decisions as well a flood our system with chemicals based on what mood we're in. My point is, there is a scientific explanation behind love, even if we dont understand it, it doesnt mean its untrue. Science, like love, may seem illogical, but it is.
in addition, claiming, "love is illogical" implies that there is no explanation behind it, or that we cannot explain it. Our bodies operate like computers, and whether we want to believe it or not, we are much more mechanical then we may li...ke to believe. Even in terms of love, I believe it is closely associated to mating as a construct of evolution. We are like machines, and just because someone may behave irrationally or have "random streams of though" that dont make sense to the person thinking them, that doesnt mean there is "no reason" behind them.