Response to an IchiOri Essay: Part 2

[xdreams_of_love]

[quote]Consistency #9: Baiting.
Grimmjow’s done it. Ulquiorra’s done it. Nnoitra’s doing it right now. Whenever an enemy even so much as put Orihime in harm, in Ichigo’s view, Ichigo gets pissed. They only do this to get a reaction out of Ichigo, a reaction they want to see. Meanwhile, it prompts Ichigo to fight harder.[/quote]

This is true for more than just Orihime. Not too long after this, Nnoitra starts kicking Nel around and it drives Ichigo just as crazy, if not even moreso:







This is a consistency for any and all of Ichigo's friends. Kubo stated that Ichigo's weakness is his friends because he wants to protect all of them so much. Orihime is simply one of his friends. If you care to notice, 99% of the time Orihime was used as "bait," it was in the HM arc where the focus was on her. She wasn't used in the SS arc and she wasn't used in this current arc. That's because it's not just about her.

[quote] As long as Orihime was safe, Ichigo felt he can beat his enemy more efficiently. But now that she isn’t, he can’t just avert his attention from the ongoing fight and go save her even when he’s trying his damned hardest to[/quote]

False. Did you keep reading after Orihime wasn't being harmed but Nel was in danger? Orihime was fine but Ichigo wasn't even paying attention to her because he was too busy freaking out about what was happening to Nel. It's not all about Orihime all the time. See above.

[quote]Poor Orihime was confused amidst the chaos going on that she didn’t realize that Nel had been injured too. I thought it was pretty thoughtful that Ichigo reminded her and told her to heal Nel before healing him. In a way, as though he’s also trying to not burden Orihime so much with healing him first all of the time.[/quote]

She didn't realize it or she just puts Ichigo first all the time, even above little Nel and her best friend Tatsuki? It's this kind of stuff that is the reason people say that her feelings for him are not 100% healthy.

[quote]Ulquiorra took note of Ichigo’s strength and asked whether it was because of his comrades, him defeating Grimmjow, or because of Orihime. I would say that it’s all three, but for now it’s only two of those things motivating him. Ichigo felt more powerful after he overcame Grimmjow. His friends are down there fighting against an enemy that held him off before. As for the part with Orihime, the urge to save her is only driving him closer and closer to his goal.[/quote]

Really? Where does he vow over and over again that he will save her no matter what? Where does he announce that he MUST save her even once since he entered HM? Why is his resolve and his motivation being challenged and questioned over and over again, as it NEVER was in SS? If he is so dedicated to saving her, it doesn't really come across that way in the manga, at least not based on what he says or does.

[quote]Orihime bucked up from her insecurity and use her strengths to protect Ichigo from further harm.

The way Ulquiorra called out Orihime reminded me of the way Grimmjow called out Ichigo during the fight. Indeed, why didn’t she protect him from the first attack coming for him. But Ichigo cut him off before he said anything further, explaining that it didn’t really matter why she had hesitated and thanked her for helping him out. See, Ichigo actually appreciates what she does for him - it doesn’t matter whatever ulterior motives she has behind what she does because he believes in her. However, again he tells her to stay out of it - he’s keeping her safety in mind as he usually does. Orihime turns despondent as a result.[/quote]

There's so many things wrong here. Why did Orihime hesistate to protect her supposed "love of five lifetimes?" It's a legitimate question from Ulquiorra, although I'm not surprised you are brushing it off because it doesn't really look good for your pairing, does it? Ichigo brushes her help aside, and she actually listens to him instead of standing her ground and protecting him as she should have (and regrets later that she didn't later in the fight).

[quote]Just as Nnoitra had done before, Ulquiorra barred Ichigo from coming to Orihime’s aid unless the latter was killed. Look at Ichigo’s reaction to what’s happening - it’s intense. He’s frantic to reach her and protect her from those two girls. Another prime example of Ichigo not comfortable with Orihime being hurt. He did not have any qualms in hesitating to go in for the attack towards them, but it only pissed him off more when Ulquiorra was getting in his way.[/quote]

Again, what is so special about this? Did you even read that part where Nel was being kicked around? Any of Ichigo's friends being hurt is a distraction for him, not just Orihime was you are trying to make it out to be. Of course Ichigo is "not comfortable with Orihime being hurt." What kind of friend would he be if he were?

[quote]Protecting Orihime still the main objective with him. He tells Ishida to protect her with his body if he had to. However, he’s trying to protect her from himself - well, his Hollow powers I meant.[/quote]

I think he meant his reiatsu, not his Hollow. But perhaps that is what you meant, I'm not quite sure.

[quote]The reason why I said that Ishida was an important person in term of Ichigo and Orihime’s interaction, many many panels ago, is because he was a perceptive character. This is the exact situation as during the event that Ichigo was fighting with Byakuya and where Orihime was clutching herself, praying against all odds that Ichigo would be alright after the fight. Now, a few months after that fight, here is Ishida seeing that Orihime is safe from everything that has been going on…physically. He knew that she isn’t alright on the inside. He told her that Ichigo would be alright and that he’s going to win this battle against Ulquiorra. However, he knew that that wasn’t going to settle her, not one bit. She’s worried for Ichigo again. She isn’t going to be satisfied until she sees him again safe and sound.[/quote]

Yes, Ishida is important because, again, his unrequited feelings for Orihime are paralleled in Orihime's unrequited feelings for Ichigo. He clearly wants to make a move on her here, but he stops himself because he knows her mind is on Ichigo.

[quote]That image of Ichigo being the one who would save her and her friends, her knight in shining armor, her prince, the one who was powerful enough to overcome his enemies, the one who put his faith in his words and the one who would bring her back home safe and sound? The Ichigo who promised to protect her right in front of her all those months ago?[/quote]

Except for the last sentence, that is the way she sees Ichigo, but it is not who Ichigo is. Ichigo is not a her prince nor her knight in shining armor. The fact that her fantasies come crashing down here...welll...

[quote]Orihime is going through a huge breakdown now. Ichigo’s dead, and now she’s asking a dead Ichigo what should she do.[/quote]

Mental breakdown, ok. Understandable. However, why ask Ichigo what to do? How can he possibly help her now? Even if she cannot not help him despite trying her best, failing would still be better than continuing to rely on Ichigo even when he is dead. Do you not see how ridiculous that is?

[quote]I think this moment is really sad because, as much as a scene like this is needed for development, this broke Orihime’s heart. She wanted to protect Ichigo so much and she failed in doing that. Just like how Ichigo failed in protecting her from going to Hueco Mundo, she failed in protecting him from certain death. And it’s tearing her apart to see no life in his eyes anymore.[/quote]

She failed, as he failed...that is why this pairing doesn't work. They don't help each other the way you think they do. Orihime's reliance on him is toxic for her because it's what led to her mental breakdown in the first place, and Ichigo is not the shining hero in this arc as he was in the SS arc.

[quote]If we were to take all of that information above about Hollows, and consider Shirosaki’s actions, Ichigo was NOT conscious about his actions as Bull Ichigo. Shirosaki simply took over from there.[/quote]

True. I agree.

[quote] However, as all Hollows do, Bull Ichigo came back to the living because there was a goal that had to be fulfilled before he died completely. Something brought him back. It was his promise to protect Orihime from dying.[/quote]

Now here is where you are wrong. Hollows come in different shapes and sizes. Some hollows are very attached to someone (a person or an place or an object, like Sora and that Hospital hollow were), others just want to wreak havock and eat as many wholes as possible (the serial killer/parakeet hollow and Grand Fisher). In Ichigo's case, his hollow wants to fight and win. Supposedly he wants to take control from IChigo, but this might just be because he doesn't believe Ichigo was it in him to win and keep them both alive.

You may not know this, but this scene is mistranslated. There is no "her" there. There is nothing in the raws to suggest that the near-dead IChigo knew who was calling him...only that SOMEONE needed help...and that was when he reached out for more power and he was so weak that his hollow finally got to take full control. There is no mention of his promise here, before, or afterward. You are too fixated on it, really.

[quote]And that was all that drove Bull Ichigo to come back to life and destroy any and every threat there had been to Orihime, even if it meant that it had to destroy Ichigo’s friends as well (poor Ishida).[/quote]

Nope. Ishida was not posing any threat to Orihime whatsoever. The fact is, Ichigo was not in control and couldn't recongize anyone. He had no idea that it was Ishida he was stabbing, so how could he even realize that ORihime was the one who called to him and needed protecting?

[quote] And, taking into consideration of where a Hollow’s heart had gone to, what its powers represent and taking into account of Shirosaki as a part of Ichigo’s powers, it’s pretty clear that Bull Ichigo’s entire being and power is displaying Ichigo’s truest instinct and heart: it’s pure. Since Shirosaki is basically Ichgio’s Zanpakuto powers, it was as though Ichigo transformed into the zanpakuto sword itself to protect Orihime. Through Bull Ichigo’s intents and actions, Ichigo’s heart PROTECTS. And in order to protect its loved ones, Bull Ichigo does whatever it can to eliminate that threat, and it goes too far by killing them, which is NOT what Ichigo was about. You can see how Bull Ichigo went into overkill trying to get rid of Ulquiorra when he’s already been defeated.[/quote]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Once Ichigo transformed into his Vasto Lorde form, he no longer cared about protecting anyone or anything. All he cared about was the FIGHT, in a beastly way. That is why he continued to destroy Ulquiorra even after he was down. That's why Ishida was trying to prevent him from losing his HUMANITY.

[quote]On Orihime’s side, she realized that Ichigo came back to life after she screamed for him to help her. And she’s not happy about this. She’s horrified at what it’s doing, but most of all she’s horrified and ashamed at herself. She believed it was her fault that she turned him into this indistinguishable nightmare that’s destroying everything and everyone in its path, just for the sake of protecting her. She trained all of those two months with Rukia for what? To be a burden for him again? Being dependent on him over and over again? Her dependency brought him to something she never wanted to see him as, and she blamed this all on herself.[/quote]

This is exactly why we say IchiOri is a fail. Unlike the SS arc, which ended with Ichigo feeling like the victorious hero who fulfilled his promise to himself to protect those important to him, this arc has Ichigo's worst fears coming true. I don't know how Kubo could make it any more obvious for you which pairing is the positive one, and which one is all wrong.

[quote] At this point in their relationship, Kubo shows us Orihime coming to terms with what she knew she had a problem with: she relied on Ichigo too much. Wherever she was weak in, she always counted on Ichigo to fill in that void for her. She put her eggs in one basket and banked on everything being over quickly. It’s a hard wall to hit for her, but it made her see the reality of it and come to terms with her flaw. It gives her a character overhaul that will transform into something remarkable an arc later.[/quote]

Exactly. This is why Kubo has her in love with him in the first place: her behavior with respect to him causes her to develop as a character. She relies on him too much, and she learns not to do that quite so much and grows as a person. Ichigo, however, doesn't have any such development that's specifically related to her. For him, it's all about his inner hollow and his inner lust for battle (hence the title of the chapter arc).

[quote]Ichigo sees that Yammy doesn’t care about the fates of his comrades, but Orihime was the only one who showed more remorse over them. This is another example of Ichigo taking note of her emotions and he felt that she had a much more appropriate reaction to their deaths rather than just be callous over them.[/quote]

This is the ONLY time during the ENTIRE arc that he spares her a thought in this way, and he's thinking of her feelings over Ulqiorra's death: an Ulquihime moment. What does that tell you?

[quote]The rest of the Arrancar probably don’t even care that their comrades had died, but Orihime did. Ichigo saw and understood her sympathy for the people who tortured and hurt her through her experience in HM.[/quote]

Aaaand you took it too far. It's not Orihime who is the focus here, it's the arrancar and their lack of human compassion. He doesn't ruminate on how sweet or whatever Orihime is, he simply thinks that the arrancar are heartless in comparison to humans.

[quote]In the end, it’s just Orihime being silly with Ichigo again, like always. Orihime is happy to just see him again and see that he’s alright. The look that he gives her is so gentle and at peace. He could have said more, but then he passed out after a few words. Rukia’s look is the same as the one she gave Orihime after Ichigo’s vow to protect her: sisterly and understanding, so she let Orihime talk since she knew she was the one who probably worried about Ichigo the most.[/quote]

Actually, Rukia's look is the same as Ichigo's: gentle, as if talking to a child. They kind of look like parents regarding their baby. It's got nothing on the tender look Ichigo gave Rukia when they parted at the end of this arc (notice how this arc ended with another IchiRuki farewell scene, not an IchiOri one...actually Ichigo and Orihime have never had a moment that tender, and likely never will. The tender farewell scene Orihime gets is instead with Ulquiorra. But of course you skipped over both of those scenes.

[quote]A year and a half later after Rukia leaves and Ichigo lost his powers, everyone has gone on with their lives. [/quote]

Everyone...except Ichigo. He is miserable and doesn't seem to care about his future.

[quote] It’s a typical meeting between Ichigo, Tatsuki and Orihime, where the former two argue with each other about Orihime: Tatsuki tells him to butt out of how she educates Orihime in not doing dangerous stuff, and Ichigo defends Orihime by saying that Tatsuki shouldn’t be so hard as to actually hit her on the head and that it wasn’t so bad because Orihime didn’t get hurt falling down - although he did call her an idiot for basically endangering her life out of the window. Same ol’ pattern of Ichigo being worried for Orihime’s safety as always.

Both Ichigo and Tatsuki don’t care as much though, since they think what Orihime was talking about was childish [/quote]

Ichigo and Tatsuki are arguing here as if they are parents arguing over the best way to raise their child. I don't understand how IchiOris see this scene as a plus for their pairing...Orihime is being treated as a total baby here. Yes, Ichigo is clearly showing consideration for her here, but not the way a boyfriend would for a girlfriend, but as a big brother would for a baby sister or a parent would for a child. Consistency #4 (or 5? I lost count): Ichigo treating Orihime like a baby sister.

[quote]It's not discarded! It was unsold!'
'Same thing!'
'Nuh uh, the feeling is different!' [/quote]

Orihime's reactions here and Ichigo's stubbornness...it kind of reminds me of his interactions with Yuzu:





Consistency #5 ;)

[quote]The bread scene! As I re-read this part of the manga, I realized that this was the perfect scene that showcased how closer Ichigo and Orihime had gotten since their time in Hueco Mundo. Their relationship had gone from being mere acquaintances shared by a mutual friend to a point where Orihime is able to come to Ichigo’s place and hang out with him casually.

I did think it was cute that he noticed how fidgety she was, and when she told him about not expecting to come up to his room, he told her that it wasn’t as though it was her first time being in his room (*hint hint* - Five Lifetimes, One Love scene). [/quote]

"Casually," lol. Certainly for Ichigo. He is 100% nonchalant about it, not the way you'd expect a smitten guy to behave around a girl as beautiful as Orihime. She shows all signs of having a feelings for him: fidgeting, blushing, stuttering, etc, while Ichigo doesn't even get why she is acting that way. To him this is a completely normal interaction between two friends. For her it is something more...but for her and her alone.

[quote] Which reminds me - it was pretty nice how he brought up tea for the both of them to drink while they talked and ate bread. Sign of hospitality indeed.[/quote]

Ichigo is thanking her for the bread she was giving him. He literally said as much. Sigh.

[quote]Another thing: Orihime was worried and presumed Ichigo was being followed, but Ichigo dismissed it instead turning it around on Orihime saying that she was the one being followed around the most. Keep in mind that Orihime’s a pretty popular girl at school so it sounds like Ichigo probably has a bit of a keen eye and noticed her popularity attracting a lot more guys now.[/quote]

Noticed, and doesn't care at all. Much like he doesn't see what the big deal about having her in his room is, because it's not special to him like it is to her. He notices she is very popular, but it doesn't matter to him because he doesn't see her that way at all.

[quote]Second time Ichigo offered to walk Orihime home, and the second time that offer did not carry through[/quote]

And much like the first time, he was trying to protect her from danger. If he really wants to walk her home so bad, why'd he completely turn her down when SHE asked HIM in the next scene? It's because his offer is NOT about romance, it's about Ichigo being his usual protective self, as most of his supposed "special" treatment of her is.

[quote] - this time Ishida’s father offered to take her home instead. Ichigo gets annoyed, of course. Ishida’s hurt in the hospital, he’s confused as to what’s going on, the least he thought he could do to be helpful was to walk her home. But even he couldn’t do something as simple as that.[/quote]

Actually, the reason Ichigo felt bad was because it was a reminder that he can't protect her or any of his friends because he's still powerless. He felt excluded.

[quote] now she noticed that something was really wrong with him. She does feel for him about being useless in situations such as Ishida being injured and not doing anything about it though. Why? Because she’s been in that position before.[/quote]

And does she cheer him up? Nope, because she doesn't have that ability. Sure, what would help him the most now would be getting his powers back, but again Kubo shows us that Orihime cannot help him when he is depressed. Only one girl has that role, and it's not Orihime ;)

[quote]Orihime gives him the news of Chad not showing up to school after a few days. Ichigo gets surprised by this, because now he thinks something now happened to Chad after Ishida gets hurt. Ichigo hates being in the dark about stuff like this, so it is understanding that he gets dismissive on Orihime’s invite to go with her to bring a get well gift at Chad’s place. Ichigo gives her the closed-eye expression, not wanting her to get worried again, and it stops Orihime in response, making her feel downcast.[/quote]

Not surprised you completely brushed off his downright rejection of her company here. What happened to Consistency #1 or whatever it was, Ichigo being so desperate to walk her home? This is proof that that is about protecting her when she needs it, not romantic feelings he does not have. This is the second time he has turned her away, and again she gives him that sad expression. In both cases she was trying to spend more time with him, and in both cases he turned her away. If she were really so special to him, we'd never see him doing that.

[quote]Even when he doesn’t have any powers, at least Ichigo was able to remember the direction in where her apartment is.[/quote]

And...? Why are IchiOris so preoccupied with this? What do you think, he stalks her and watches her sleep like some kind of creepy Edward Cullen? He probably remembers her address because she's invited him over before. It's really not that big a deal.

I see you skipped over the FullBring activation scene...now why would you do that? ;)

[quote]Next scene is a telling one. I think this is funny how she is confronted by Riruka, the girl who’s in lust with Ichigo, versus the girl who’s in love with Ichigo (Orihime).[/quote]

OH, honestly, "in lust"? Are you kidding me? Because she thought he was hot one time, that means she's "in lust" with him?! You can't get more ridiculous than that. Riruka's not even a likely match for Ichigo, so you can cool it with that nonsense.

[quote]Before, we had an Orihime who doubted a lot of her powers and usefulness so much that she depended on a lot of them to fill in where she lacked in terms of strength, especially Ichigo. By going through such a traumatic event such as Ichigo’s death in the previous arc, now her confidence solidified. She grew from that experience and strengthened herself to believe that she can make herself stronger and better. Now she’s determined to never let even death deter her from healing her friend and love. As she said, injuries won’t make Orihime worry about Ichigo anymore because when that happens, she’ll be there and she’ll always be there to have his back when the going gets rough for him. Just as she thought she was his burden, now she seeks to become a part of his strength as well. And what better way to do that than on the battlefield right beside him? Orihime has come a long way from the air headed girl in the beginning to a strong, confident and self-assured woman who knew her flaws, accepted them and continued to better herself.[/quote]

Yes, this is exactly why Kubo gave her those feelings: so that she could grow as a person because of them. The proof is in the pudding. With respect to Orihime's feelings, we see loads of development of her as a character because of them, but no romantic development of the pairing whatsoever. That is because Kubo designed her feelings for two reasons: 1) to emphasize Ichigo and Rukia's relationship, and 2) to develop her character. If it were to pair her up with Ichigo's we'd have to see at least SOMETHING romantic from his side, but we get literally nothing.

[quote]Just as it was with Ichigo’s other rivals, Ginjou takes note of how Ichigo gets significantly stronger when he’s close to something he has to protect. At he says this, the panels switch to Orihime’s face at times. Whenever there’s something he has to protect, Orihime somehow is either seen or mentioned. So it can be said that Orihime is serving as motivation for Ichigo while he’s fighting with Ginjou - she provides him something to fight for.[/quote]

Yes, she does, because in this case she represents what he wants to fight for: the ability to protect his friends, family, etc. This "panel switching" isn't some kind of hint as you're trying to make it out to be, it's actually very straightforward: giving someone to Ichigo to protect makes him fight harder. In this case, it happens to be Orihime.

[quote]During the fight, Ginjou attempts to make Ichigo see reiatsu without actually trying to see - with his eyes. So he blinds him.[/quote]

Actually, that's not why he did that. Ginjou blinded him because just having Orihime there wasn't enough:



He needed to go a step further than just having her hanging around.

[quote] Even when he couldn’t hear her, Ichigo somehow knew that something happened to her and called out her name. Ichigo, who is blinded, could sense it when Orihime was in trouble. He only got more pissed off when Ginjou teased him about it and he rose in the air and struck in the direction Ginjou was in. It’s a dirty thing to do, but at least he was able to see spiritual pressure again in the end.[/quote]

Lol, "can sense" it...or her heard her go silent as she was put in that cage. In any case, he was calling out to her and ASKING IF she were in trouble. He didn't "sense" anything.

[quote]The point where he can’t take it anymore occurs when Tsukishima tries to call Orihime and Chad. Who does he call first though?
Calling Orihime earned Tsukishima a punch from Ichigo. You know, if Ichigo was such an unimportant friend as detractors keep touting, then I would have to say his reaction to Tsukishima calling Orihime was an overload. This is where he starts to panic because now he realizes that this guy has gotten to Orihime and Chad as well. Given the fact that he’s protective of Orihime, it’s pretty understandable of why he hit him. To him, a creep like this guy shouldn’t even come near her and his other friends.[/quote]

Do you think that if Tsukishima had called Chad instead, Ichigo wouldn't have had the same exact reaction? Ichigo is concerned for his FRIENDS, one of which happens to be Orihime. His losing it isn't about just her, it's about him being worried for everyone, including her.

[quote]I didn’t pull it up before, but it reminded me of when Shinji hugged Orihime just to catch Ichigo’s attention and Ichigo had to get up, pull him away from her and take him outside to talk with him.[/quote]

Consistency #5 or 4: Ichigo acting like a protective big brother.

[quote] When Ichigo is feeling pain, Orihime’s feeling pain. When he cried, she cried as well. She cried for him. She recalls how Tsukishima was such an important person to her and yet her heart’s aching for Ichigo instead. In spite of the brainwashing, in spite of the false memories inside her head, her love for Ichigo was still there inside her. She may not have understood it, but it never wavered all along. This is a beautiful scene because it showed that the purest part of her bond with him remained strong and well.[/quote]

If you really wanna go down that route, you will have to admit that Byakuya's bond with Ichigo is stronger than Orihime's, because the brainwashing didn't even work on him at all:





Despite his false memories, he knew that Ichigo would always be on the side of right, unlike Orihime, who was confused and chose Tsukishima in her dilemma.

Now, I'm not making that argument. What I am saying is that the problem isn't how close you are to the person, it's that the brainwashing is imperfect. Even with fake memories, Orihime's feelings were not erased, and neither were Chad nor Byakuya's. That's why she cried, not because of "the strength of her bond with him."

[quote]It had never been destroyed nor had it been lessened. If there was ever another example of Ichigo and Orihime’s bond, this is it right here.

She cries again, but this time she cries tears of joy. When he’s supposed to be the enemy, she’s extremely happy for him because he’s stopped being in despair and he’s gotten what he wanted all of this time. His happiness is all she wants for him and that’s all that mattered to her.[/quote]

Two things. 1) You are almost directly quoting what Kubo wrote about the IchiRuki bond in the poem, colorspreads, etc of the previous chapter or so:



And 2) Don't forget how one-sided this moment is. It's NOT about "Ichigo and Orihime's bond," but her unrequited feelings for him. Even when she has this moment of near-clarity, it doesn't involve him at all. She's off alone having this moment, and Ichigo doesn't even notice, and is subsequently never made aware of it (as usual). Consistency #6: Every "IchiOri" moment is focused on Orihime's feelings and her feelings alone, and do not involve any input whatsoever from Ichigo.

[quote]Thanks to Rukia coming to Ichigo’s rescue,[/quote]

As usual ;) And the rain is dried thanks to her, while Orihime is off on the sidelines, watching, helpless to do anything for him...as usual.

[quote]Orihime arrives with bread, and Ichigo tells her if the bread are throwaways then they must be bad. She wasn’t deterred though, because Orihime sassed him by saying he won’t have any if that was the case. Soon Ishida and Chad arrive and they chide Ichigo as well for badmouthing her bread in front of her like that and that he should actually get a clue and be polite about it. It’s clear that Ichigo and Orihime are able to banter with each other without it getting awkward as some fans keep saying. It may not be the same kind of banter as it is with Ichigo and Rukia, but it’s not supposed to. It’s distinct for them and in a way it’s actually adorable[/quote]

It's great to see Orihime standing up for herself, but I'd hardly call her "sassy" and this isn't really "bantering." Another example of IchiOris wanting what IchiRukis have...I thought you guys were obsessed with how "gentle" Ichigo is to Orihime and how "peaceful" she makes him feel? Now you want them to banter like Ichigo and Rukia do?

[quote]First you say it’s bad, but now the bread’s good Ichigo? Mhmm.[/quote]

What is even your point here? Ichigo, despite calling the bread "throwaway," has never turned it down, and has always eaten it. He never said it was bad.

[quote]They are happy to see each other after a period of chaos and uncertainty. He’s relieved that everyone’s alright, but the look on his face when he saw Orihime’s smiling expression is so precious. He’s happy she’s safe and sound and it sounds as though Orihime is relieved to see that he’s alright as well. [/quote]

Another scene that IchiOri fans give an inordinate amount of attention to. Ichigo is SURPRISED here to see his friends unharmed, that's why his eyebrows are raised. In the very next page, his big smile is still there for Chad, but his eyebrows are lowered now that the surprised as abated:



He just saw SS get ransacked and his friends get horribly injured...of course he is super happy to see his friends in HM are unharmed!

[quote]Even up to this point it’s all about whether the other one is okay and they still care about each other.[/quote]

Um, and Chad. He's also in the scene and Ichigo is also happy to see him okay...or did you miss that?

[quote]So, are Ichigo and Orihime bad for each other? God no! If they were, I don’t think they could develop to become such good friends up to this point in the manga. And so far, I don’t think Kubo has intended to portray their relationship in a negative light.[/quote]

I don't think it's a coincidence that Ichigo goes through his darkest moments during the arc about Orihime. It's not that she is "bad" for him in general, but her reliance on him and her fantasies of him as some kind of invincible prince certainly were. As for Orihime, her darkest and saddest moments were over Ichigo as well.

[quote]After all the pep talks through Rangiku and Nel that he gave Orihime, I don’t think so.[/quote]

Rangiku's pep talk about about Orihime's self esteem. Nel's pep talk was about Orihime not doubting Ichigo, who is a kind person. Neither really excuses the big fail IchiOri fail that was the HM arc.

[quote]Does Ichigo not care about Orihime? Manga evidence points towards otherwise.[/quote]

Of course he cares about her. As much as he cares about Ishida, or Chad, or any of his other friends.

[quote]He’s consistently been kind, gentle and friendly towards her, capped off with his tendency to care a lot about her well-being. Ichigo’s perfectly fine as long as Orihime is alright and he turns uncomfortable quickly when she’s placed in danger.[/quote]

You can replace "Orihime" with "Nel" in this sentence and it would still be 100% true.

[quote] When he makes a promise, he holds to his words like a heart on his sleeve and we’ve seen time and again how Orihime is possibly a bit of a soft spot for him.[/quote]

Uh, what? Where is his promise ever brought up again? Find me even one manga panel where it is referenced.

[quote]Is Orihime obsessed with him? So far she’s had her own life, she lives by herself, she has a job and she has backed off of him and respected his privacy when she knows he needs his space. She doesn’t do stupid things like stalk him or whatever detractors are spouting off these days - that’s a huge disrespect to Orihime’s character. She has her own life with Tatsuki, Ishida, Chad and the others. She’s not just seen hanging around with Ichigo.[/quote]

And yet she always puts him first in a way that suggest she could be a little less preoccupied with him. When Ichigo had to ask her to heal Nel instead of him? When she said goodbye to him, a guy she was barely even friends with at that point instead of her best friend Tatsuki who's stood by her and stuck up for her and protected her for years?

[quote] And when she does, it doesn’t seem like it bothers him. He likes people like her because she isn’t too annoying, just silly.[/quote]

Who's annoying him, hmm?

[quote]'But-but Ishida's (or insert another Bleach male) been the considerate one towards her and I think that Orihime needs to go with Ishida instead of that bastard Ichigo because he doesn't love her like Ishida does and if she doesn't she's a cold hearted bitch who doesn't deserve anybody!!1!!'
No. No. Shut the fuck up about that. You are not about to pull that Nice Guy bullshit. Orihime can fall in love with whoever the fuck she wants to - it’s beyond her control anyway. Orihime is an individual character with her own choices and is fucking better than that shit. Hell, even ISHIDA is better than that shit.[/quote]

Orihime sure can love whomever she wants, but Ichigo is never going to love her back. Unlike Ichigo, Ishida has never been shown to be as considerate to anyone else as he is to her. He's also got a lot of the traits that she likes in Ichigo: he's kind, he's a hero, he protects his friends, etc. I think she would make a very cute couple with him.

IchiOris talk about Orihime's feelings like they are forever (or fivever, haha). The fact of the matter is, even if she loves him now, she can get over him and fall in love with someone else eventually. At least, I should hope so. It would be very sad for the poor girl if she were to continue loving him even when he ends up with another girl.

[quote]Does that mean that I think Orihime deserves Ichigo? Hell no! Ichigo can like whoever he wants to and is not obligated towards her in any way. I don’t even think she’s trying to pursue a relationship with him because the friendship that they share is already precious enough for her. And she’s happy with that.[/quote]

That I certainly agree with. Although If he doesn't have feelings for her and she's not pursuing a relationship with him...how does the pairing have any chance of happening?

[quote]IchiHime isn’t just about Orihime’s romantic feelings for him, although it’s a pretty special component of it that Kubo awarded only to her. As it was mentioned before, he doesn’t write a lot of romance in a manga written for guys. When he does, it’s a part of a person’s bond with another. In this case, it’s part of the bond Orihime has with Ichigo.[/quote]

I've said it before and I will say it again: Kubo "awarded" her with feelings for him for the purposes of her character development. Her feelings are about her and her alone. Ichigo has no part in them.

[quote]On Ichigo’s side, time and time again have we seen him fiercely protect her name, her honor and just protect her being overall.[/quote]

What? When did he protect her name or her honor?

[quote] And I believe Kubo made their relationship distinct like this on purpose because there was no other relationship like the one Ichigo and Orihime have together.[/quote]

Really? When did Kubo say that about their relationship. I remember him saying something like that about IchiRuki, actually. In fact, Kubo's never said a word about IchiOri. Isn't that interesting ;)?

[quote]She helped shaped a part of who he is, and in turn he helped shaped a part of who she became.
Just as Ichigo and Rukia are defined by the inseparable bond of destiny, as Ichigo and Chad are defined by the bond of ‘You fight for me and I’ll fight for you’, and Ichigo and Ishida defined by the bond of being close rivals on separate sides of the coin, Ichigo and Orihime’s bond is defined by the care they have for each other, they strength they give each other and the protection they provide for each other. And nothing’s going to ever change that between them.[/quote]

I don't really disagree with this, but I will close with this: Orihime, as Ichigo's other friends, has had a hand in shaping who he is. However, unbeknownst to him, he has had a MUCH greater role in shaping her. In order for a relationship to be healthy, it must be mutual. Mutuality is something that IchiRuki has, IchiChad has, and even IchiIshi has. IchiOri is heavily imbalanced. In order for it to work, Ichigo has to start caring about her as much as she does for him...and it's a bit late for that to start now.