Re: In my Opinion...xxbalaaxxApril 6 2010, 22:24:01 UTC
Good points. This was the reason I made the point of growing thicker skin. The purpose of this entry was merely to give people food for though, or perspectives from both sides of the fence to consider C:.
Thank you for the comment! From a personal perspective, I agree and when I post my own work, I expect to receive comments of all sorts. I just try to take more care when offering my time and critique to someone else.
Re: In my Opinion...ravenveApril 6 2010, 22:30:58 UTC
I appreciate throwing food to people, which is why I added my own opinions. :3 Too much random stuff around here, very little is connected in LJ, so when I find something I like, I feel like replying to it.
I also find that it's totally not difficult at all to ask if an artist wants constructive criticism, and only give it if requested. If I am worried I will forget what I was going to say or am reasonably certain that the artist won't mind getting CC, I employ the sandwich method (say something I like about the piece, leave constructive criticism, end with something I like again). Should someone have to do that? No, probably not, but it takes minimal extra effort and why not point out some things you think are working as well as stuff that isn't?
that's a thoughtful thing to do as well. I don't think people are obliged to do that but it is a courteous thing to do! I think it also depends on where you post. If you post your work in a professional forum, say cgtalk or conceptart.org, you should expect to receive criticism whether you ask for it or not. the whole point of professional forums is for people to grow as artists and not waste time courting the criticism, so to speak.
But yes, I think mainly what i was trying to get across is the use of courtesy from both sides of the fence, the critiquer and the critiquee. (are those even words XD?!)
I appreciate critique, but I would prefer it if it is a critique of a commissioned piece that I could be noted privately. If the client is happy, I'd rather that internet strangers don't start putting seeds of doubt into their mind which might result in an unpaid do-over on something neither I nor they saw previously. Something minor, sure, but even that is up to the client, it's not a drawing by committee.
When I get critique I try to apply it to the next thing, keeping that previous quirk in mind, unless its a WIP I don't usually go back and fix items, so when I receive a public crit on a commissioned piece that is already finished it just kinda bothers me but perhaps I'm the only one who feels this way. Again, though, I do still like critiques, so if it's a commissioned piece, I encourage folks to note me or email me privately :)
The point on commissioned work is also a good one. The same goes for professional work. I often hesitate to post work commissioned by a company, especially if the company requested me to render something in a way that I wouldn't usually render it (ie the anatomy/colors/composition may be exaggerated or seem off). I expect to get comments on those things when well, that's what I was commissioned to do. I also find it a bit unprofessional to list those elements off in the submission description, in case the client ends up seeing them.
And personally I often discourage public criticism, but not because I don't want it, but for the exact reason that most people don't know how to give solid constructive criticism (and if they leave criticism they think is constructive, and I don't reply, well they likely think less of me for it)
I really don't see the point of doing that with commissioned work, like you said highly unprofessional and especially in the fandom, where the client is bound to read the description and they will feel maybe they got less for their money or somehow the artist didn't do their best on their piece.
I do often list things I'm unhappy with in personal pieces, because I'd rather not waste people's time in giving me criticism on things I already know aren't perfect.
But does that mean there is only one formula to writing critique and that is "straight to the Achilles heel!"?
I've found that folks who pride themselves on being "brutally honest" are more interested in being brutal than honest.
A lot of these self-proclaimed critics just use offering constructive criticism as an excuse to see how nasty they can be; I've seen so-called "review" communities which are really just interested in mocking upcoming artists rather than seeing them improve. Being snarky is in style these days, and as a result, a lot of folks shrug off criticism not because they need to "grow a thicker skin" but because there's such a lack of people offering the constructive variety in the first place.
I was fortunate enough to get some art tips from a friend of mine years ago1, and my art definitely improved because of it. I'm still not great by any means, but this has more to do with the fact that I'm usually too busy to practice. (I crank out a piece of art about twice a year, if I'm lucky.)
Well, while I agree that there are some people that probably use concrit as an excuse to be brutal, I don't think that's true for the majority of people who just give bad constructive criticism
( ... )
I rarely give critique unless specificly asked for it, and sometimes not even then. It's really hard to tell when a person genuinely wants help, or just wants props/attention.
If I'm having problems with an image, I have a group of friends I go to for help or opinions. I won't ask for an open call on critiques or advice because 90% of the people who would respond don't know what they're talking about, another 5% would use it as an oportunity to make nasty comments, 4% would give me blanket props, and maybe 1% would have useful advice. Having a stable of people you respect and trust to give honest help is invaluable.
Ditto on both counts, especially the latter. I have a close group of artistic minded friends who will give me honest helpful criticism. I feel I can trust their opinion and know they won't just tell me what i want to hear. Of course, they also know I am my own worst critic and see far more 'problem' areas than even the most critical minded of them!
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Thank you for the comment! From a personal perspective, I agree and when I post my own work, I expect to receive comments of all sorts. I just try to take more care when offering my time and critique to someone else.
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But yes, I think mainly what i was trying to get across is the use of courtesy from both sides of the fence, the critiquer and the critiquee. (are those even words XD?!)
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When I get critique I try to apply it to the next thing, keeping that previous quirk in mind, unless its a WIP I don't usually go back and fix items, so when I receive a public crit on a commissioned piece that is already finished it just kinda bothers me but perhaps I'm the only one who feels this way. Again, though, I do still like critiques, so if it's a commissioned piece, I encourage folks to note me or email me privately :)
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And personally I often discourage public criticism, but not because I don't want it, but for the exact reason that most people don't know how to give solid constructive criticism (and if they leave criticism they think is constructive, and I don't reply, well they likely think less of me for it)
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I do often list things I'm unhappy with in personal pieces, because I'd rather not waste people's time in giving me criticism on things I already know aren't perfect.
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I've found that folks who pride themselves on being "brutally honest" are more interested in being brutal than honest.
A lot of these self-proclaimed critics just use offering constructive criticism as an excuse to see how nasty they can be; I've seen so-called "review" communities which are really just interested in mocking upcoming artists rather than seeing them improve. Being snarky is in style these days, and as a result, a lot of folks shrug off criticism not because they need to "grow a thicker skin" but because there's such a lack of people offering the constructive variety in the first place.
I was fortunate enough to get some art tips from a friend of mine years ago1, and my art definitely improved because of it. I'm still not great by any means, but this has more to do with the fact that I'm usually too busy to practice. (I crank out a piece of art about twice a year, if I'm lucky.)
1 It's probably worth ( ... )
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If I'm having problems with an image, I have a group of friends I go to for help or opinions. I won't ask for an open call on critiques or advice because 90% of the people who would respond don't know what they're talking about, another 5% would use it as an oportunity to make nasty comments, 4% would give me blanket props, and maybe 1% would have useful advice. Having a stable of people you respect and trust to give honest help is invaluable.
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Thanks for the comment :D!
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