Heck, it's about time [*]

[_fustian]

Current Music: Underworld -- Billy Goat

High amongst my top ten movie rants is a speech about Hell, delivered in cameo by author Tom Keneally in Fred Schepsi's semi-autobiographical The Devil's Playground. Keneally's bearded and softly-spoken Jesuit uses an extraordinary analogy to explain to his captive audience what the eternal part of "eternal

Comments

[xhile]

Although work has blocked the Youtube vid (will watch later) I completely and utterly agree.

And I agreed when I was/am a theist, too.

While I am familiar with various arguments to justify or minimise the idea of hell, in the end none satisfy me. A g0d who designed such a system would not be a loving g0d, she would be a cosmic sadist. Imo.

Incidentally not all theists traditionally believe in hell, it's mainly christians and muslims from what I can tell. Jews have a different conception of the afterlife. Not sure about the smaller varieties of theist.

And there are conservative "bible-believing" christians who are annihilationist, ie don't believe in hell. I have an old school friend who is now the minister of such a church.

[_fustian]

not all theists traditionally believe in hell

Indeed; it's a Christian doctrine that Islam unfortunately took up, although they tend to be less enamoured with the whole eternity thing. (Of course, that's not to say there aren't Hells in other faiths; Shinto's is apparently pretty nasty-although I wonder how much of that was later, Western-influenced thinking at play.) And as you say there are universalist and semi-universalist options, so there's really no excuse for it.

[xhile]

By "theist" were you intending to include all who believe in gods, rather than just monotheists? After all, the ancient (polytheistic) Greeks had Hades which wasn't a very pleasant place

[_fustian]

Hades which wasn't a very pleasant place.

Hades-or rather Tartarus; the rest was more like the Jewish Sheol, ie. not originally a place of general punishment-was a special case, reserved for the subjects of important morality tales and legendary monsters.

Interestingly, the Wikipedia entry not only makes the case that Hell is in fact an evolution from Sheol, but also cites John the Revelator to imply an annihilationist eschatology! :) And apparently journalists are using it more and more...

[harveystoat]

I'm so incredibly pleased that you found this! It was long ago that I turned on my old analogue ABC late-at-night and was rewarded with a tale of repressed Catholic boys in Australia - thank you for reminding me, not only of the speech, but of the title!

As for Hell, I agree. Christ, my father agreed - and he was an Anglican priest, the notion of a Hell, or a Devil, or any Absolute Evil is a doctrine of hate and fear, a punitive action designed to frighten you moral.

This has brightened me day!

[_fustian]

I'd love to see a collection of great movie rants on youtube. Maybe I should twitter about it and see whether the zeitgeist picks it up.

[neonfaerie]

I sell many copies of this film to damaged Catholics like myself.
Only tendollars!

[_fustian]

I'm kinda surprised it's still in print.

[huckle]

(a bit off topic).
I remember reading a pamphlet from a Catholic church on the afterlife, which included Q and A. One question went "Can you tell me what happens to animals after they die? Timmy has been such comfort to me in my old age and I cannot bear to think of him ending up in purgatory for ever." The answer went along the lines of: "Timmy will end up in purgatory but don't worry about that because you are going to heaven, where by definition you will be perfectly happy so you will forget all about him."
Nice answer, I'm sure it was greatly reassuring.

[_fustian]

you are going to heaven, where by definition you will be perfectly happy so you will forget all about him.

"Don't worry: God will make you as cold and heartless as he is."