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[sputnik5]

Hi all

Comments

[gmonkey42]

I was reading my old LJ entries from Spring and I forgot about this:

[that one student] doesn't understand how exponents work. She was insisting that 10^3 = 10,000. She said the exponent tells you how many zeros to add. ....I'm not sure what she would have done if it had been 10^-3. Maybe set the paper on fire. Math is hard.

I mean, OK, if she'd never had the opportunity to learn math it would be wrong to laugh at her, but she has a Bachelor of Science in marine bio and is pursuing a MS and insisting on doing a project that involves molecular biology, and gets so angry when anyone tries to explain something to her.

Also she sends really snotty e-mails to the all-students list about washing the dishes in the student lounge.

So it could be worse. You could have that student ;D

[sputnik5]

What about situations where the person is clearly not excited by what they are doing, just putting in face time, and none of their results are reproducible? I was actually thinking of a way of saying not so much - You suck at bio bench work, but rather -You might find you are good at and excited about something else, and it is OK to rethink you life plan.

[high_tower]

What's your position in the lab and what's theirs?

[sputnik5]

In this particular case - teaching an upper level lab course. This particular student, and how clearly they are bored by what they're doing (compared to the rest of class, where there is interest in the subject, and understanding that what they're learning may be useful) just got me thinking on how and when is a good time for that talk about 'Do you really love this field, because you will be competing with people who are excited by their work and have more technical aptitude, and this will not be an easy ride. If there's something else you're really into, give THAT some more thought.'

[moklp]

I preferred the grade replacement compared to not taking it but I do think it should be left up to the teacher. IMO

[ellig123]

It's frustrating to see people not succeed because of a perceived lack of effort, but at the same time it's not for you to criticise as such. Manual dexterity is a tricky one because there's not much they can do about that and they probably know that they struggle - criticism isn't going to change anything there. People get out of work/life what they put in but my approach would remain lighthearted. If they don't want a career in science then they won't put in the effort and that's up to them, but I'd stress to a group that hard work is required and wouldn't dream of telling an individual that they'd "never make it with their work ethic". You're not employing them and they aren't naughty school children so I think that you have to give them the information needed without being seen to tell them off or to appear to be trying to make career decisions on their behalf. Stress that the jobs market is competitive, stress skills and attributes that are desirable in your particular field, but don't be negative or personal with it.

[sputnik5]

So to be clear - the student in question is in my class, and I do not intend to tell her anything. The grade for the semester is sufficient.

But I have seen grad students with the same problems, questionable work ethic, no interest in science, and no apparent aptitude for it. And then you read the Nature (I believe) articles about the failures of grad school and the PhD glut. And I wonder, were I a PI or a mentor, how would I communicate to people who are in for 7 years of grad school + 4 years of post doc that they need to consider what a difficult enterprise it is, and that there are other options if they like certain aspects of what they're doing and not others.

[sputnik5]

I ended up doing something along those lines (the 'supporting... given what they're giving you to work with'), but the student is applying to med schools, and I worry.