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Jan 04, 2006 13:17

Good things = thank God, God did it ( Read more... )

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murry_kate January 4 2006, 14:29:13 UTC
I don't think that is the mind-set of every Christian.

I do think that God has given all of us gifts and talents. You have intelligence. Would that be classified as interventionist? I don't know.

A lot of bad things in this world are because of people. A lot of the good things in this world are because of people too. Maybe God didn't save the miners because it was their time to die. Maybe an ideology you'd be more comfortable with is the one of the God who has set everything in motion and allows things to play out as they will. Or maybe he's just not interested, like in Piers Anthony's Incarnation series. No one actually knows for sure ( ... )

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murry_kate January 4 2006, 14:37:44 UTC
Also (sorry if I ramble), you read in Journeys in Luke where Jesus said "blessed are the poor." So the people who fit that societal pattern you mentioned probably aren't being blessed by God by Him giving all that stuff to them. They are maybe using the gifts God gave them to get that stuff. Or maybe that's all luck. I'm really not the most eloquent person on this subject, but that's just a little of what I think.

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ags_jeffbaker January 4 2006, 14:40:25 UTC
I am an atheist of a sort, I suppose, in that I don't adopt any theism or deity as my own. However, my mindset is more of a questing agnosticism than a militantly rejecting atheism.

The interest is mostly in the logical implications of a God - sort of an on-going thought experiment to try to rectify the claims that the Bible makes about God, and to a greater extent the perceptions that believers have about their deity with observable reality. I'm having trouble with some particularly complicated questions, as you might imagine.

I use this space as kind of a musing ground where others are free to comment on the musings, I guess you'd say. Hope you're having a great break, MK, it'll be over too soon (or not soon enough, depending on your point of view!)

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ags_jeffbaker January 4 2006, 14:42:44 UTC
Also, I didn't know you read Piers Anthony - he used to be my favorite author. I still think the first three Xanth novels are some of the most novel (hah!) fantasy written in the last 50 years. I followed the rest all the way to about 32 and then the puns and increasing ridiculousness choked my interest to death.

The Mode series was pretty good, or at least what I remember of it, and I never got around to Incarnations. Worth a read?

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blackbeltdude January 4 2006, 21:59:24 UTC
I will comment on this...being a Philosophy major, we define "God" as being all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good. I asked my professor if God, (being all-good)is then limited in his/her power...the professor was unable to properly answer my question. I am a firm Christian, but I am the sort that questions things...my opinion on this matter is that God can in fact intervene in our lives, but since he is all-knowing there must be a reason behind his/her actions. I know this is not a very good answer, but I think that there are reasons for everything. If little Suzie falls off of the cliff, then mybe it will bring someone closer to God, by seeing his power and mercy...as for the miners, however, that one I cannot see a reason for...I guess that is why he/she is god and I am not :)
P.S. This is not saying that this is the way you should think, it's merely my opinion :>

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ags_jeffbaker January 4 2006, 22:46:40 UTC
See above: "The Lord works in mysterious ways. Fingers go to ears, believe believe believe!"

The problem, as I see it, is that the debate is framed in the mind of the theist VERY firmly and VERY specifically:

1. God is always right
2. If God appears to be wrong, see 1.

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blackbeltdude January 5 2006, 02:32:36 UTC
well, as a "theist" I might agree, but I see it more like: God is always right...if God appears to be wrong, talk it over with Him. Now, if you don't believe...this might not seem like such a good or useful idea, but to you I say this: If God is fallible, then he cannot be all-knowing, or all-powerful. In this case he would seem pretty useless as a "Supreme Being". So then it wouldn't matter if he were always right or not. In this case I would say: God may or may not be real...if He/She isn't then I've wasted a few Sundays...but if He/She is, then I have permanent fire insurance, and maybe you could use some.
It all comes down to faith, if you don't believe, then it doesn't matter, but to those that do believe, God being wrong would unravel everything they believe in.

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