To me in this case the loss seemed rather inevitable - it was a story of a basically nice (if misguided) guy becoming a supervillain. Story-wise, there were two paths for him: being redeemed by love of a good woman and sacrificing/compromising his career as a supervillain, or becoming truly Evil through losing her with maximum irony. I will not try to argue which path is makes for a more interesting or satisfying story.
Absolutely. I agree that the loss was inevitable. It is Joss Whedon after all.
Whedon's work churns my world, and part of me loves it (which is why I watch and will continue to watch his stuff) and part seriously doesn't.
I keep banging my head against the fact that there are truly awful things happening in the real world. And yet, do I/we feel about them as immediately as I/we do when watching Whedon's work? Am I somehow becoming inured to the real tragedies out there while simultaneously caring so very much about what happens to Tara, Wash, Fred, etc.? Are we being outraged/sickened/disheartened about the right things? I know, I know, it's a work of fiction. But, it still forces me to think along those lines if you see what I mean.
Quite frankly, though, if he had made it a "redeemed by love" kind of story, we wouldn't have believed it was his work. That's just not what he does and his fans know it and (I believe) should expect it.
Agreed entirely on that last point. I'm just extremely surprised and puzzled that so many people on my friends list reacted to the ending with complete surprise and indignation
( ... )
As Stalin said: a single death is a tragedy; a million deaths are a statistic.
Stories where we come to know the [fictional] characters, even if briefly -- can accomplish what news headlines about a thousand real-but-faceless strangers cannot. It appears to be the way that most human beings are put together.
I think Whedon's particular skill is to deal with tragedy in a human and epic scale at the same time. With his work it's not flip or gory or silly on a scale from say, South Park at one end and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre at the other. There is death and bad things happen to good people, but unlike lots of material, I find that it means something. Looking at DH and thinking in context, I was thinking how unusual it really is to have that level of empathy with characters and that they are not just disposable
( ... )
I think/agree that he gets us to care plenty. His characters are rich and interesting.
I can't help thinking that there is something about showing us the cruel fates of so many of his characters (Tara, Wash, Jenny, Angel/Buffy to name just a few) that is deliberate on his part.
After a while, it gets to be too much.
I will never forgive him for Wash. That was unnecessary (both to the plot and to the character) IMO. And it made me like the Firefly universe a good deal less. It is poorer without Wash in it flying somewhere with his hair on fire.
Whedon's gift, and his curse as far as I'm concerned, is that he creates characters that are so beloved. And then, he f*cks with them to the point that it just feels sadistic to me. As I said, I'll keep watching but it's getting harder to do.
What I love about his work is that he doesn't go for the Hollywood ending. Instead he shows us *real* humans who make choices, some of which they come to regret. We all do it. His characters sometimes do it on a bigger scale but I think that is just a function of what happens when you put a story on the screen (big or small).
Maybe that is what draws you to him too. It's not masochistic, it's human.
Not to be the lone voice bitching... but as much as I loved everything that everyone else has commented on, GOD DAMMIT JOSS I AM SICK OF THIS SHIT YOU **ALWAYS** PULL. Surprise me for once... DON'T kill the characters we love in horrible ways. Wouldn't that be refreshing?
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Whedon's work churns my world, and part of me loves it (which is why I watch and will continue to watch his stuff) and part seriously doesn't.
I keep banging my head against the fact that there are truly awful things happening in the real world. And yet, do I/we feel about them as immediately as I/we do when watching Whedon's work? Am I somehow becoming inured to the real tragedies out there while simultaneously caring so very much about what happens to Tara, Wash, Fred, etc.? Are we being outraged/sickened/disheartened about the right things? I know, I know, it's a work of fiction. But, it still forces me to think along those lines if you see what I mean.
Quite frankly, though, if he had made it a "redeemed by love" kind of story, we wouldn't have believed it was his work. That's just not what he does and his fans know it and (I believe) should expect it.
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Stories where we come to know the [fictional] characters, even if briefly -- can accomplish what news headlines about a thousand real-but-faceless strangers cannot. It appears to be the way that most human beings are put together.
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With his work it's not flip or gory or silly on a scale from say, South Park at one end and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre at the other. There is death and bad things happen to good people, but unlike lots of material, I find that it means something. Looking at DH and thinking in context, I was thinking how unusual it really is to have that level of empathy with characters and that they are not just disposable ( ... )
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I can't help thinking that there is something about showing us the cruel fates of so many of his characters (Tara, Wash, Jenny, Angel/Buffy to name just a few) that is deliberate on his part.
After a while, it gets to be too much.
I will never forgive him for Wash. That was unnecessary (both to the plot and to the character) IMO. And it made me like the Firefly universe a good deal less. It is poorer without Wash in it flying somewhere with his hair on fire.
Whedon's gift, and his curse as far as I'm concerned, is that he creates characters that are so beloved. And then, he f*cks with them to the point that it just feels sadistic to me. As I said, I'll keep watching but it's getting harder to do.
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Maybe that is what draws you to him too. It's not masochistic, it's human.
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It would certainly surprise his fans a great deal and for once leave us satisfy that at least someone in his universe(s) is winding up happy.
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That's really my whole point. I'm just way tired of people in his universe constantly and consistently being put through the wringer.
It's becoming not so fun to watch.
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