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[angua9]

I truly don't want to pile on heidi8 when she is down, demanding instant apologies, explanations, and justification of all her actions and inactions over the past three years. That isn't polite or reasonable. On the other hand, what she is saying on her LJ is infuriating me. Here is what I just posted to her:

When I got Angua's email, I spoke about

Comments

[praetorianguard]

Hi Angua

[praetorianguard]

Thank you for understanding. I'm certainly not saying that what FA's mods/admins do or don't do personally shouldn't reflect on the site -- because I wholeheartedly think it should. But I wanted to explain to Angua why FA never did anything, especially release IP addresses.

[praetorianguard]

Surely nobody required FA to do anything legally? Only that Heidi as an individual take note of the considerable evidence that had been presented to her?

Nobody in this entire saga, as far as I can see, has suggested that Dionne has broken any laws. Only that she's ripped people apart, and that those who stood by and let her share some responsibility.

[praetorianguard]

I'm really just trying to explain why FA has never make an official statement before now. Some people are wondering, and rightfully so, why FA never investigated, and I wanted to explain why.

Whether anyone involved in FA does anything personally is up to them, as far as I'm concerned. Why they did or didn't investigate at the time or apologize now is their decision. Some of them have apologized, some haven't. I have, and I feel both awful and like an idiot over the whole thing, but that's neither here nor there as far as Angua's post goes.

[praetorianguard]

Like I said, this doesn't excuse anyone personally, and it doesn't. All it does is explain why FA as a corporation couldn't act and didn't say anything public untiil today.Well, the thing is, I (and I think a lot of other people) could care less about whether or not FA's hands were tied when it came to taking any kind of official FA action against MsScribe. She made FA look bad, unprofessional, and petty, (and indeed, guilty by association and complicity), so you could have simply dissociated yourselves from her - like, way the fuck away - after the initial GT IP evidence came out. Which was pretty damn damning. It takes a really speshul person not to acknowledge that the initial GT IP evidence put MsScribe beyond the pale of probable doubt as a troller into blatant obviousness

[praetorianguard]

I understand that you don't care about the legal stuff, and I do understand that FA has taken some actions that made a lot of people unhappy, and perhaps shouldn't have been taken. I completely agree that mods/admins actions, even off the site, should reflect on the site -- even though the site can't do anything about them except fire the mod/admin. The site hired these people, and that's a character judgment.

I'm really not asking you to credit anyone's apology, or even my explanation. I really just wanted to explain to Angua why FA didn't do anything official until this past Monday.

[hanfastolfe]

Ok, so necroposting.

I'll just keep this short and sweet.

Any web serving program worth its salt logs all inbound IP addresses and, if detailed enough, page/image requests. If you had forums back then, IP addresses are generally logged by the forum software for the purpose of allowing bans by IP address.

Just sayin'.

[second_batgirl]

Thank you for explaining why FA itself didn't do anything, but I'm going to reply quickly. I, for one, was glad to read your personal apology after everything that happened in 2003.

But... the actions of the board members reflect on the corporation. The actions, or inactions in this case, certainly reflect on FA. That's why CEOs occasionally resign for things that happened in their private lives.

I can understand why you didn't do anything legally. But, as pointed out before, there's a difference between legality and morality.

[praetorianguard]

You're absolutely right in that there's a huge difference between legally and morally, and I agree. All I've done here is explain why the corporation didn't act, not why anyone personally didn't act, and I'm certainly not trying to excuse anyone personally. Also, I do understand why this reflects on FA; certainly the actions of the board, the officers, whomever do and should. I really just wanted to explain to Angua why FA never took official, corporate action until Monday.

[divinemum]

So when FA turned to SQ for help in locating CC's stalker, were they acting as FA!The Corporation or FA!Not the Corporation? Either way, FA had a lot of balls to ask SQ for help, but then turn around and deny help to Angua simply because FA!The Corporation wasn't harmed.

It seems like FA is splitting hairs here.

[praetorianguard]

I'm going to answer this to the best of my knowledge, but please know that I wasn't in the fandom when any of the CC stalking thing happened.

FA was incorporated in November, 2002, long after the entire stalking incident, and that's when I started represeting it. When the stalking incident happened, FA wasn't a corporation, and it didn't have a ToU, at least if I have my history correct.

Beyond that, I have no idea what happened or what didn't happen or what Heidi or anyone else was asking for. I know that in 2003 our ToU prohibited us from releasing IP addresses, and again, I apologize that no one from FA responded to Angua's e-mail to Heidi; I thought someone had.

[doctoraicha]

I very much appreciate your personal apology for your actions.

Heidi has not given one for hers.

[praetorianguard]

*rueful* Would you mind much if I didn't step into the morass of what Heidi has or has not done? I'm not here to defend her -- which of course leaves aside of the question of whether I'd want to in the first place.

I'm just very, very sorry for the role I played in any of this, including for not explaining FA's position in a very public way sooner. Much sooner.

[doctoraicha]

You don't need to step into the pile of mess that Heidi has made, or hasn't. I don't mean to try to drag you into it.

[praetorianguard]

Thank you, I appreciate your understanding. I'm just starting to feel a bit like people think I'm trying to explain what Heidi has or has not done, and that I don't know.

[kokopoko]

I feel for you. This has blown up even worse and you're the only one dealing with it right now. *hugs*