Religious themed post under cut- cranky & a bit cynical tone- no personal insults meant. Public in case anyone wants to point others this way( Read more... )
Well put. I've gotten myself in trouble for DECADES because I use the term Religious to describe my Verold. I remember a Gardenarian friend had created a Religious Pagans Org/Ass back in the late 80's that would get heckled at Pagan festivals because as far as the "Spiritual" folks were concerned, using the term "Religious" implied that they were more serious than the more relaxed. Personally? In most cases I've come to Bleive that folks who use the "Spiritual" label haven't done their "Kubler-Ross" on their childhood Beleifs. As far as they're concerned, there's a big difference argueing with St. Peter that they hadn't "really" been "Whoring After Foreign gods" when they've been SPiritual....which means it's just a Metaphor or Metaphysical exercise,not like it was a real religion like good ol' Mom & Dad's.... Truth, Pat
its a whole double standard w/ pagan/polytheist faiths IMO. Sadly, I don't think even most Heathen identified folk get it, the whole hostility towards building relationships and devotional work and widespread belief that the will of community trumps will of the Gods. There is so much that is broken in American Heathenry... I just hope there's a way to fix it.
Not just Heathenry. It's Worse in other alt-rel trads. The biggest symbol to me is that of Commitment, or lack thereof. To me it's just Sad that Converts to other religions will stand up for theirs but ours? Most alt-rels think being not Liked is "Oppression" and will do ANYTHING to remain "Likeable". A personal example was my Mom's reaction to me going to synagogue with a Jewish friend(Reformed, of course;>!). Now, at the time I'd been a Wiccan Priest for 2 yrs and she didn't have a "problem" with it but she went Ballistic when she found out. It took a while(mainly because I was Uncomfortable talkingto her about the subject...) but found out why the differing reaction. After all, in the one she was Upset about I simply accompanied a friend in the other, Clergy. The reason? Judeaism was a RELIGION and therefore REAL. Wicca was a "Beleif-system" and therefore WASN'T. One is a FAITH, the other a THERAPY or EXERCISE....and YHVH's less likely to Punish a Therapy than Apostasy;>.... Truth, Pat
Thank you for a magnificently succinct elaboration of the distinction between religious and generic spirituality - I'm adding this to my 'memories' so that I can come back and refer to it later on.
I think anyone bound/owned etc cant help but be religious v spiritual, its the very definition. Its pretty much predicated on one's understanding of the concept of sacrifice- either a gift for a gift quid pro quo mentality, or earnest gift. Its one of those deep philosphical divides nobody in our community has really confronted yet.
I'm aware that an awful lot of people--including some who call themselves heathen--don't think of heathenry as a real religion. The main cause of this is probably indoctrination by the desert god's folks--I get it on LJ every once in a while from Xian and Jewish people. I think the most recent statement was "I think of paganism as a hobby." Also, whether we like it or not, the alternative religions path was blazed in the West by people drawn to Hinduism and Buddhism--and Buddhism's (usually and essentially) atheist and Hinduism teaches that all religions are valid paths because they all lead to Brahman--the one god--and that the individual spiritual quest is the point. But also, people have varying degrees of religious depth. It's just the way humans are. You and I were called to be clergy, and so are by definition religious maniacs. An awful lot of people are me-centered in their religion because that's just the way they are. At least questing after the religion that makes one feel best or offers one the best
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Personally? In most cases I've come to Bleive that folks who use the "Spiritual" label haven't done their "Kubler-Ross" on their childhood Beleifs. As far as they're concerned, there's a big difference argueing with St. Peter that they hadn't "really" been "Whoring After Foreign gods" when they've been SPiritual....which means it's just a Metaphor or Metaphysical exercise,not like it was a real religion like good ol' Mom & Dad's....
Truth,
Pat
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A personal example was my Mom's reaction to me going to synagogue with a Jewish friend(Reformed, of course;>!). Now, at the time I'd been a Wiccan Priest for 2 yrs and she didn't have a "problem" with it but she went Ballistic when she found out. It took a while(mainly because I was Uncomfortable talkingto her about the subject...) but found out why the differing reaction. After all, in the one she was Upset about I simply accompanied a friend in the other, Clergy. The reason? Judeaism was a RELIGION and therefore REAL. Wicca was a "Beleif-system" and therefore WASN'T. One is a FAITH, the other a THERAPY or EXERCISE....and YHVH's less likely to Punish a Therapy than Apostasy;>....
Truth,
Pat
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http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/min/589248160.html
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I'm aware that an awful lot of people--including some who call themselves heathen--don't think of heathenry as a real religion. The main cause of this is probably indoctrination by the desert god's folks--I get it on LJ every once in a while from Xian and Jewish people. I think the most recent statement was "I think of paganism as a hobby." Also, whether we like it or not, the alternative religions path was blazed in the West by people drawn to Hinduism and Buddhism--and Buddhism's (usually and essentially) atheist and Hinduism teaches that all religions are valid paths because they all lead to Brahman--the one god--and that the individual spiritual quest is the point. But also, people have varying degrees of religious depth. It's just the way humans are. You and I were called to be clergy, and so are by definition religious maniacs. An awful lot of people are me-centered in their religion because that's just the way they are. At least questing after the religion that makes one feel best or offers one the best ( ... )
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