Interesting

[az2tx]

I was reading a discussion about a law called Taegen's Law which apparently requires longer sentences for sex offenders whose victims are children. This woman was trying to drum up support for this legislation and unfortunately the discussion keeps turning to abortion because the first version of the bill defined child as "conception to age 18".

Comments

[az2tx]

I completely agree with you. I can't see any way around people then eliminating the right to abortion altogether. That being said, IF there was a way to make that argument, then I think that charging a rapist with murder is appropriate in that it would result in a longer prison term. Maybe we just need to place rape and incest right up there with murder when it comes to the penalty phase.

[budhaboy]

IMHO, the 'crime' of murder is you have taken from the murdered ALL of their opportunity to express their free will (you asked, so I view ALL crime as an expression of loss of opportunity to express free will...).

SINCE an embrio is not capable of expressing free will in any meaningfull way OUTSIDE the mother's discression, as it isn't able to survive without her aid, it is the singularly pecurliar relationship of any human being: it is the only time a human's will is trully subservient to any other human as they aren't cable of surviving in any way without the mother's assistance (this is why, IMHO it should be a crime to keep women from having an abortion as it robs them of their will).

Since the embrio isn't capable of expressing will, it isn't possible to comit the 'crime' of murder as the abortionist can't steal something the embrio never had.

[az2tx]

Ok, well then what about the fact that the rapist has imposed his will on that of the victim by impregnating her with a child she did not want or ask for, thereby robbing her of the free will to make the decision to have a child or not have a child? Should there not be an additional level of punishment for that? If it weren't for the original crime of rape/incest, there would be no reason to consider abortion.

[budhaboy]

Should there not be an additional level of punishment for that?

additional? no. Implicit in the act of rape is the chance that you could be forcing the woman to carry a child not of her choosing, through no actions of her own... It's the reason the klan used to lynch black men in the south for raping white women...

[az2tx]

Damn you. I was trying to create a "devil's advocate" stance on this issue and I just can't. Mostly because I completely agree with you. I guess I should only try to have controversial conversations with people I disagree with. :)

[ellisbell]

I think if you are opposed to abortion you can't allow exceptions when there has been rape or incest. The whole argument against abortion is that it is an innocent soul that deserves to live. How does that change because of the way the innocent soul was created? I feel that people who are for abortion in those two cases only are hypocritical, and using the process as a way to absolve the shame the abused feels. I sound callous, but I don't mean to. I just have a particular problem with that particular Christian Coalition philosophy outclause. Therefore, charging a man with murder because someone else aborted his child (esp. when that person is supposedly "against abortion!") - even if he raped to make said child, is in my opinion ridiculous.

[ellisbell]

I remember when I told my parents I was moving in with a gay friend (a man) after graduating from college. They told me they were worried for my safety. This confused me until I realized they thought that he would rape me and give me AIDS.
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I cannot embellish that with a comment any more ridiculous than it already is.