The story has become... big. Dauntingly so. It will even require a lot of spoken dialogue. I can now only give a general statement, so here it goes: there's too much talking for my taste. The strength of this animation should lie in its music and visuals, because those are the skills you want to show. So the story should be told using that. But scene 5-8 and 10-12 basically consists out of people talking to other people. Almost all emotions, troubles, plot-changes, etc. are told through dialogue instead of shown. And that's just a shame.
I can understand how you and Alex in your excitement want to do as much as possible with a big a story as possible. But in this case, I'd take a step back, just stop for a minute and think if this really is going to show your talents.
I don't think it's necessarily the case that too much has to be spoken. For example, the first part of scene 5 could just be shown by the shaman laying out his unfinished plans on paper to the chief on a table, while making big gestures (As such, I guess the shaman is trying to get approval to further build his plans for a giant statue), and when Kalua comes in, she can just grab the paper, throw it on the ground angrily, and jumping on it. Or something. In any case, it something that can also be told without dialog.
I'm in a bit of a hurry now, buth I think more of the scenes could be enacted out in a more action-oriented way.
Sense is being made. Lots of things can be conveyed without speaking in a more action-way (which is more fun to watch than people talking anyway).
I think I was partly against the people-talking-to-people, because the story is much bigger now, so you have more interactions explaining people's motivations and ancestor-stuff. So it was more part of my main concern that the story is too big to show through visuals in 10-15 minutes without feeling rushed and expositioning all the time. I just hadn't thought my feedback through enough to put it nicely. But Leo can better judge how much work and time everything will take, so I'll leave it at that.
well, I am worried that the story is too big as it is. But I also don't want to settle for anything less then epic...
What you also need to keep in mind concerning people's motivations / ancestor stuff is that quite a lot doesn't have to be explicitly explained. Think of the whole backstory of the sunken Amsterdam in Marin. And really, this movie can be more elaborate then Marin: I have more time (10 months), no thesis to write, I have the experience of making Marin under my belt and I'm going to look for help in the animation process. It's a gamble... but any great movie making is.
But I'm also not comfortable the amount of dialogue that seems to be needed at the moment. I have to find clever ways to decrease it. And as soon as I start drawing I'm convinced I'll find visual metaphors that will render a lot of conversation unessesary.
But anyway, without thinking in terms of practical realization, do you like the story? Do you find it intriguing? As something worth seeing?
Let's see... somehow, Scene 11 doesn't entirely make sense. How come her father's doomed, and she can escape? Why would there be no point in going after him, and why does the statue say that? Is it necessary for it to say that?
And then, the Shaman. Instead of 'crushed and breaks down', perhaps 'shocked and angered' is more in place. Like, that is the moment where the Shaman really becomes an evil persona out of jealousy of Kaula, because she can speak to the statue and he cannot. So instead of breaking down, he instantly gets that vicious gleam in his eyes.
Also, if you need a good voice actor, I may know someone (not myself, heh).
Let's see... somehow, Scene 11 doesn't entirely make sense. How come her father's doomed, and she can escape? Why would there be no point in going after him, and why does the statue say that? Is it necessary for it to say that?
Yeah, that's a bit of a weak point isn't it? The idea is that statue knows what's going on (the Chief is going to pronounce change and will be crossed by the Shaman) and predicts that it'll be fatal for the Chief and the Clan in the long run if the Shaman completely takes over and wants to save Kaula and thus urges her to flee. Again. It's quite a lot and it's weak. We have to think about that one.
And then, the Shaman. Instead of 'crushed and breaks down', perhaps 'shocked and angered' is more in place. Also, if you need a good voice actor, I may know someone (not myself, heh).
Cool. Male/female? What age? Capable of physically visit a sound studio in Hilversum?
Male, 30, can drive himself around in own car, also my boyfriend. XD
But I'm not kidding - he's aspired to do voice acting work and he hosts a radioshow. He's definitely talented and can do different tones/intonations very well. I can ask him to send you some samples if you want, then you can judge for yourself. :D
Well, now I am intrigued. Well, next to a good sounding voice it's most important that he's capable of dealing with and acting upon dramatic directions of an obsessive director. I know I can be pretty demanding and specific as it comes to vocal performance and it doesn't always works out. But if this doesn't scares him off I do like to hear some samples. :)
Also another reason to trow a new Geekfest, I like to meet this man in action. ;)
Great story. Not much to complain about at first glance. Maybe just a small addition.
How about a little extra in scene 7, where Kaula while talking picks up things and stuff in the Shaman's place and plays with them, and unwittingly passes a test, being able to do something only a real shaman can do, so that the audience sees that it is her that is the real Shaman instead of the other guy, which also is the explanation why she can speak with the statues and the shaman can't. An extra reason for the shaman to want to get rid of her.
Heheh, cool. Something like the turning-the-water-into blood scene in The Prince of Egypt in reverse. You know where the Egyptian prophets show the Farao they can also turn water red just like Moses by sneakingly adding some powder in water bowl.
This true-shaman thing can be a really interesting turn of events and may resolve a lot of logic issues. I'll look into it. Thanks, Kees!
It may indeed solve some of the head-mythology puzzle. The main question here is how Shamans are picked: do they have special powers or are they chosen by the headies, who can see who is worthy? The two would lead to very different tests.
One more thing and this isn't critique, but just me wondering: are the heads inhabited by Gods or ancestors? So are they all-powerful, mighty and wise or or are they more humane and more concerned about the tribe (like in Mulan)? (Though of course an ancestor may refuse to help after being disappointed in the tribe). Because that would matter to head's personality.
Very interesting, I can picture this and animating on it :D. Somehow I do tend to get an Disney's Atlantis feeling ^_^ Don't know if that's good or bad.
In a way the ending feels rushed and doesn't give much satisfaction.
Got to go, I'll put some more thought in it later.
Well if you're dealing with lost civilizations it's hard not to get some Atlantis associations, but it should most definitively not be like the Disney movie. The end - I agree - isn't very satisfying at the moment but I'm confident a better ending will write itself if other plot issues are resolved.
Are you present during the projectenbeurs coming Thursday? Then it might be a good idea to sit down with Alexander at some point for a little exchange of thoughts. :)
Comments 29
I can now only give a general statement, so here it goes: there's too much talking for my taste. The strength of this animation should lie in its music and visuals, because those are the skills you want to show. So the story should be told using that. But scene 5-8 and 10-12 basically consists out of people talking to other people. Almost all emotions, troubles, plot-changes, etc. are told through dialogue instead of shown. And that's just a shame.
I can understand how you and Alex in your excitement want to do as much as possible with a big a story as possible. But in this case, I'd take a step back, just stop for a minute and think if this really is going to show your talents.
Reply
I'm in a bit of a hurry now, buth I think more of the scenes could be enacted out in a more action-oriented way.
Am I still making sense here?
Reply
I think I was partly against the people-talking-to-people, because the story is much bigger now, so you have more interactions explaining people's motivations and ancestor-stuff. So it was more part of my main concern that the story is too big to show through visuals in 10-15 minutes without feeling rushed and expositioning all the time. I just hadn't thought my feedback through enough to put it nicely.
But Leo can better judge how much work and time everything will take, so I'll leave it at that.
Reply
What you also need to keep in mind concerning people's motivations / ancestor stuff is that quite a lot doesn't have to be explicitly explained. Think of the whole backstory of the sunken Amsterdam in Marin. And really, this movie can be more elaborate then Marin: I have more time (10 months), no thesis to write, I have the experience of making Marin under my belt and I'm going to look for help in the animation process. It's a gamble... but any great movie making is.
But I'm also not comfortable the amount of dialogue that seems to be needed at the moment. I have to find clever ways to decrease it. And as soon as I start drawing I'm convinced I'll find visual metaphors that will render a lot of conversation unessesary.
But anyway, without thinking in terms of practical realization, do you like the story? Do you find it intriguing? As something worth seeing?
Reply
Let's see... somehow, Scene 11 doesn't entirely make sense. How come her father's doomed, and she can escape? Why would there be no point in going after him, and why does the statue say that? Is it necessary for it to say that?
And then, the Shaman. Instead of 'crushed and breaks down', perhaps 'shocked and angered' is more in place. Like, that is the moment where the Shaman really becomes an evil persona out of jealousy of Kaula, because she can speak to the statue and he cannot. So instead of breaking down, he instantly gets that vicious gleam in his eyes.
Also, if you need a good voice actor, I may know someone (not myself, heh).
Reply
Yeah, that's a bit of a weak point isn't it? The idea is that statue knows what's going on (the Chief is going to pronounce change and will be crossed by the Shaman) and predicts that it'll be fatal for the Chief and the Clan in the long run if the Shaman completely takes over and wants to save Kaula and thus urges her to flee. Again. It's quite a lot and it's weak. We have to think about that one.
And then, the Shaman. Instead of 'crushed and breaks down', perhaps 'shocked and angered' is more in place.
Also, if you need a good voice actor, I may know someone (not myself, heh).
Cool. Male/female? What age? Capable of physically visit a sound studio in Hilversum?
Reply
But I'm not kidding - he's aspired to do voice acting work and he hosts a radioshow. He's definitely talented and can do different tones/intonations very well. I can ask him to send you some samples if you want, then you can judge for yourself. :D
Reply
Also another reason to trow a new Geekfest, I like to meet this man in action. ;)
Reply
How about a little extra in scene 7, where Kaula while talking picks up things and stuff in the Shaman's place and plays with them, and unwittingly passes a test, being able to do something only a real shaman can do, so that the audience sees that it is her that is the real Shaman instead of the other guy, which also is the explanation why she can speak with the statues and the shaman can't. An extra reason for the shaman to want to get rid of her.
Reply
This true-shaman thing can be a really interesting turn of events and may resolve a lot of logic issues. I'll look into it. Thanks, Kees!
Reply
One more thing and this isn't critique, but just me wondering: are the heads inhabited by Gods or ancestors? So are they all-powerful, mighty and wise or or are they more humane and more concerned about the tribe (like in Mulan)? (Though of course an ancestor may refuse to help after being disappointed in the tribe). Because that would matter to head's personality.
Reply
Very interesting, I can picture this and animating on it :D. Somehow I do tend to get an Disney's Atlantis feeling ^_^ Don't know if that's good or bad.
In a way the ending feels rushed and doesn't give much satisfaction.
Got to go, I'll put some more thought in it later.
Reply
Are you present during the projectenbeurs coming Thursday? Then it might be a good idea to sit down with Alexander at some point for a little exchange of thoughts. :)
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