Either/Or: It's (Relatively) Simple --

[bellatrys]

Logic is one of the most valuable self-defense arts out there, because what it does (one thing, at least) is create wiring diagrams of conversation, so that you can see what connects up and what doesn't, what verbal switch or combination of switches work to make something else work, and what breaks the circuit or is completely irrelevant

Comments

[nancylebov]

This seems to overlap something I've been chewing on without making any progress-- there's an idea floating around the culture that people should be completely immune to insults. As far as I can tell, people aren't built like that, and to the extent that they're unaffected by insults, it's either a lucky immunity or the result of a lot of hard work.

On the other hand, people can have some good effects on their own emotions by getting at the underlying thoughts and/or physical patterns.

It seems like there should be *some* explicit concept of how to live well that accounts for the fact that people affect each other and have partial control of themselves.

[the_leewit]

Thing is about the insult ("it's either untrue and you can't get offended or it's true and you CAN'T get offended," yes? Or "why bother with paying attention to it? You're only feeding it, if so.") is the meta-lie implied--- you are not, like every human born, worthy of respectful speech.

(I wish I had something germane to add about the original topic. I'm afraid I don't.)

[the_leewit]

I mean, beyond del Ruby's revelation.

[nenya_kanadka]

I need to take logic classes, I think, because this whole chaotic "oppression olympics" sort of reasoning happens in my head a fair bit, and it's a rather disorienting jungle to try to hack one's way through.

Russian of course (and other languages I'm sure) has separate words for exclusive and inclusive or...something English forgot to steal when it mugged other languages for sentence parts.

[wombat1138]

But as entitlement is how such A statements are usually put forth: not even "Pity me, forgive me, I did wrong BUT I have been so badly damaged I couldn't do otherwise", but "So what? I'm all fucked up!" in the same way that "I could fire you if I felt like it, neener neener!" is used by bullying bosses who have gone over some line of appropriate behavior and know it, but are too arrogant to apologize and so make a boast of their threats.As someone who has made this general sort of statement in the past, to some extent (though probably not enough) I am rightfully abashed by your analysis-- but also feel compelled to say that I've generally considered my statements to be a well-intentioned abstract warning: in cases where my fucked-upness leads to deeply hurtful actions, it will probably also prevent me from feeling actual remorse and it would be a lie to claim otherwise (cue the end of Tom Lehrer's "rikkity tikkity tin" song :| )-- not so much an excuse or a bid for pity as a self-acknowledgement of deep personal failure in normal

[packbat]

May I repost this to readers_list? It's a community for archiving all the best posts on Livejournal for posterity in one place. It will be credited to you, comments will be disabled, and a link back here will be offered for people to talk about it.