(Untitled)

[bookofjude]

I've seen this "Dos and Dont's of a Good Ally" on my friends list a few times; it comes from karynthia (ETA: This is the wrong username but I can't find the original post to correct!), and while I do not know this person, there is a lot about the post that I agree with. There is also a some stuff in the that I disagree with.

So, here's my take:

Comments

[rax]

Don't assume that everyone is comfortable with listening to the conversation about oppression you're having. If the person is unable to leave, change the subject, or perhaps discuss instead the reasons why they find it uncomfortable. Don't give them the impression that, because they're uncomfortable with discussing the topic, they're as bad as the people who doing the oppressing. You'll alienate them!

This really depends on context. If the conversation is happening somewhere that's a space for talking about oppression, their discomfort is their problem, and they are actually derailing. (The ability to have side conversationse is useful in this case.) If it's in a space for something else, it's more complicated; but even then it can be a conversation where most people have agreed that they're going to deal with oppression issues and if someone is not comfortable, sometimes they should leave, not stop the conversation.

3. Be polite. Be kind. Take into consideration other people's feelings. Just because it's an important issue, just

[bookofjude]

This really depends on context. If the conversation is happening somewhere that's a space for talking about oppression, their discomfort is their problem, and they are actually derailing. (The ability to have side conversations is useful in this case.) If it's in a space for something else, it's more complicated; but even then it can be a conversation where most people have agreed that they're going to deal with oppression issues and if someone is not comfortable, sometimes they should leave, not stop the conversation.Oh, I do agree about this, perhaps I should've been slightly clearer. There have been times in real life where I've had to sit through listening to a conversation that I found extremely distressing. I was unable to leave and the people who were having the conversation refused to stop having the conversation

[rax]

Oh, I do agree about this, perhaps I should've been slightly clearer. There have been times in real life where I've had to sit through listening to a conversation that I found extremely distressing. I was unable to leave and the people who were having the conversation refused to stop having the conversation.

I think I was trying to get across the idea that, just because a topic is important, and it's important to you, doesn't necessarily mean that you have the right to discuss it everywhere, ignoring other people's feelings on the matter.

Oh that's not cool. :/ I also think there's a difference worth considering between the right to discuss it everywhere and whether or not doing so is a good idea.

Yes, you're right. I think there are (a lot of, I guess) contexts where it's inappropriate for people to ask simple questions and expect that they get answered, and referring people to websites, or books, or other forums for an answer is entirely appropriate. But again, I don't think it means that someone who is new shouldn't be allowed

[bentley]

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS so much this. Courtesy and kindness and friendship are not overrated. The stuff in italics is true and necessary, but I think your contributions make for a much more pleasant discussion, which could be the difference between someone opening their mind and someone walking away from the discussion - or the friendship.

[bookofjude]

Being without courtesy or kindness or friendship means that we are just as bad as them. It's so important! And it just seems that in the whole "straightfail" thing, there were quite a lot of people (on both "sides" of the issue) who were being neither courteous nor kind, and it just made me very sad.

[bentley]

I'm going to link this on my Dreamwidth, if that's okay? Please don't delete it.

[bookofjude]

Sure! I can actually unfriendslock it, if you would like?

[bentley]

Yes, I only realized that after I'd made this comment, but that would be lovely.

[blackjackrocket]

I've been in loads of discussions where someone will be talking about something and I'll say something that, to me, is furthering the topic, and I'll be sniped at for derailing. I really don't think that adding another stick to a burning fire is really going to make them burn unevenly.

But it's good to see you back.