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[cool_the_cow]

I've been doing some studying lately that has led me in the direction that baptism by water is a necessary step in salvation. It isn't salvation in itself, so just being baptized isn't going to get you saved, just the same as repenting of your sins won't save you by itself. It's also safe to say that if you believe in God but say "forget you God, I

Comments

[islander82]

Yeah, I believe that God wants us to be baptized...but do you think that if a person who has faith and professes to be a Christian, but who hasn't been baptized yet, dies, he doesn't get to spend eternity in with God? Jesus told the thief on the cross that He would see him in paradise; that thief had not been baptized. Are you saying that you believe that baptism is a completely necessary response to God's grace, and without being baptized grace isn't complete and neither is salvation, or are you saying that we as Christians really just don't take baptism as seriously as we should, but that not being baptized doesn't necessarily prevent us from spending eternity with God?

In any case, it's really awesome that you're looking to find the truth in these things rather than taking everything you are told second-hand as gospel truth.

[cool_the_cow]

I'm not sure how I feel on the subject of whether or not people who believe themselves to be Christians yet are not baptized will be saved. I don't want to believe that they aren't, but on the other hand, if the Bible says they aren't, then they aren't, no matter how I or they feel. That's what I'm trying to figure out at the moment

baptism

[islander82]

I kind of doubt that he received John's baptism, although it is possible, but I see your point about him not being under the law of Christ yet. Not sure I agree with you, but then, it's been a while since I thought about this anyway. Ok, so let's say that someone "becomes a Christian" on their deathbed. Do you think that they don't actually go to be with God because they died before they had a chance to be baptized? Or are you saying that every person who has faith and the chance to be dunked must be, but God waives the rule for those who aren't able-bodied (as in, bed-ridden, dying, etc.)?

Also, what do you think of Christians who have a different idea of baptism than we do as believer's-baptism types? What about the CRC and Presbyterian Church, for example, who believe that baptism is a sign of the covenant (like circumcision was for the pre-incarnation Jews), and thus baptize babies instead of believers? They don't see baptism as a symbol of death and rebirth in Christ the way we do. If they are wrong, does this mean that they will

Re: baptism

[cool_the_cow]

I'm still trying to figure out death-bed conversions. Perhaps it will turn out that they are indeed not saved. If that's the case, they did have their life leading up to that point to be baptized and chose not to be.
Christ says that there will be people who come up to Him and say "Didn't we preach your Word in your name and baptize in your name?" And He will say, "I never knew you. Depart from me you who practises lawlessness." This suggests to me that there will be people who think they are saved but are not. The fact remains that salvation was easy to obtain and there is no excuse to die without having obtained it.
I'm not sure about all of this right now though (death bed stuff that is) I will figure out more as I read more I'm sure.

As for infant baptism, I think it's pointless and serves no purpose whatsoever. It was never recorded in the Bible or alluded to that it would be okay to do it. If baptism IS necessary for salvation then I think infant baptisms do not suffice.

Here's something to read about Martin Luther:Reply

Re: baptism

[cool_the_cow]

Here's an article about deathbed confessions

http://www.pritchettcoc.org/Articles/WhatAboutaDeathbedConfession.asp

[gemof51]

I believe in baptism by immersion. Even Jesus himself gave us an example to follow by "fulfilling the law" and being obedient by being baptized by John. I do not think that infant baptism is valid. I believe that we have to make that decision when we are old enough to make it for ourselves which gets into another whole topic....the age of accountability. Anyways, I think babies should be dedicated not baptized or "Christened". In MHO.

[islander82]

It might not exactly be what God intended, but does that mean that the people from those churches aren't getting into heaven because of it? btw, I was baptized at 18, but I want to know what y'all think...esp Daryle, since I've been following his train of thought.

[graber_89]

Interesting thoughts. Like you said, I don't want it to be true, but in the end it doesn't matter what I want. Thanks for sharing...I'll have to ponder it some more...