Comments | cottontailcake: Thoughts and Meta for SPN 7.17

cottontailcake

Thoughts and Meta for SPN 7.17

Mar 28, 2012 20:00

ALRIGHT! This is far too long already, even though it could have easily gone twice this. Just got up to date on SPN (happy dance) wrote most of this, and then needed to go on camp. Although I'm a grammar nazi at heart, I make so many mistakes and mix my words up so much I hope this is readable! Nonetheless, it’s here before the next ep and I can't ( Read more... )

Comments 17

borgmama1of5 March 28 2012, 13:37:46 UTC

You have several interesting observations.

I also interpreted Dean's reluctance to tell Emmanual his backstory as Dean's desire to preserve the healer's innocence--that seemed in character to me with the desire Dean had to keep Sammy innocent as long as possible. I've read some reviews that thought Dean didn't want Emmanual to know who he was becasue Dean was afraid then Cas wouldn't help Sam, but I didn't see that. And I like your other thoughts, that Dean could separate Cas' destruction of Sam's wall from the Emmanual who didn't know anything about it. After all, Dean has dealt with a Sam who initially didn't know what he'd done as Robo!Sam.

juppschmitz March 28 2012, 15:48:16 UTC

I've read some reviews that thought Dean didn't want Emmanual to know who he was becasue Dean was afraid then Cas wouldn't help Sam, but I didn't see that.

You know, I still do see it. When Dean says to Meg ...you want to tell him and just hope that he takes it in stride? He could snap. He could... disappear. And later Why didn't you tell me? - Because Sam is dying in there. It's quite obvious to me. And initially I was quite shocked, cause this is not the Dean I know.

But thanks to your comment I can now see that it's not just cold manipulation from his side. He is just that desperate to save Sam. He is all out of options and simply does not have the time to think through his reactions. I think right this moment he is more desperate than he's ever been since Cold Oak.

And yes, I think you're completely right - Dean's innermost instinct would be to preserve Emmanuel's innocence, even if it means he doesn't remember Dean. And your comparison between this Cas situation and the Robo!Sam situation is 100 % spot on!

cottontailcake March 28 2012, 16:40:42 UTC

Thanks to both of these comments I finally get where people are coming from with their manipulation arguments. I get now how some people have seen Dean giving Cas the trench coat as a manipulation. (Don't agree with them though.) Now that I think about it, Dean's manipulations seem kind of ugly.

For some reason I wasn't sold on Dean's emotions this ep. I wish they'd had longer, because I didn't understand the demons' role in this story until the third rewatch. And now I'm going to have to watch again to see what I think of this manipulation stuff!

It's funny how ...you want to tell him and just hope that he takes it in stride? He could snap. He could... disappear. is both evidence for manipulation, and evidence for fear for Cas. I'm glad those ideas aren't mutually exclusive!

juppschmitz March 28 2012, 16:51:09 UTC

Oh, don't get me wrong, the trenchcoat bit I think is totally, completely proof of not manipulation! After all, he dragged that ugly dirty thing around with him whereever he went and whatever means of transport he found. Instead of just leaving it in the Impala! Couldn't have planned for this situation to come around!

( ... )

Thread 8

rbmi_fan March 28 2012, 13:54:27 UTC

Nice insight. I think you've got Dean's headspace spot on, and that's an interesting point about the hospital.

About Meg, I keep wondering whether Dean knew her when he was in Hell. We know they had the same 'teacher', and there was the way Dean saved her from demon!Christian the last time they teamed up. I wonder if maybe he identifies with her. Sees in her what he would have become if Cas hadn't dragged him out of Hell.

Also, *lets out inner Meg/Cas fangirl* :3

cottontailcake March 28 2012, 16:50:55 UTC

Hmm... I think you may be on to something about Meg, even if after what she's done it's a very painful idea. I can't, and don't was to, see Dean seeing himself in her because that can only mean terrible things for his self-image, methinks.

I'm glad you think I've doing well with Dean's head space! I could never understand Dean the slightest, so I wrote this with the intention of understanding his thoughts and motivations. I just managed to disregard the manipulation side of things. Not sure what I think about that, yet.

*lets out own tentative Meg/Cas fangirl*

dimensionallyt March 29 2012, 09:17:41 UTC

I have read some interesting fanfic where Meg and Dean know each other from hell. One is also a Meg/Cas fic!

It is a great theory and further adds to the horror of Dean's psyche.

cottontailcake March 28 2012, 16:15:59 UTC

Aw, shucks.

I had so many versions of this running around my computer I didn't post the final one. I'mma going to see if I can edit it. So big edits, though.

morganlucas41 March 28 2012, 18:59:46 UTC

I like your thoughts about whether Sam's affliction was supernatural or natural. I'd say it has elements of both. Sam's condition is certainly brought on by torture in the Cage, which is undoubtedly supernatural, but the effects he's suffering now resemble the natural effects of PTSD - the hallucinations, sleep deprivation, etc ( ... )

cottontailcake March 28 2012, 19:22:37 UTC

Show certainly had me convinced Sam's condition was natural. Now, however, I am beginning to suspect that all the hallucinations were brought on by Hallucifer. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll just have to wait and see.

It would be interesting if we watched the 'birth' of a supernatural critter in Hallucifer.

I really liked liked the role reversal in Sam and Dean's attitudes to the situation. Sam was so physically tired that he took on Dean's position of resignation and spiritual apathy. Dean, though, picked up the slack! It was good to see.

Also, erm, sorry for kind of advertising on your journal! I hope that didn't annoy you?

morganlucas41 March 29 2012, 02:28:34 UTC

Hallucifer is certainly interesting...I'm starting to think that he might be some kind of extension of real Lucifer himself, mostly after I read purplehrdwonder's post on it. But he might also be a separate entity entirely. No idea yet...but yes, he is very fascinating!

Agreed on the role reversal. Maybe what it takes for Dean to finally DO something is to have Sam incapacitated like that? I mean, it worked here, but hopefully it won't be long-term, lol.

And no, not at all! I was glad to see your link to the post, and enjoyed reading it :)

erivar March 28 2012, 19:33:16 UTC

Nice review.I enjoyed your analyzing of Dean and Emmanuel. I liked Emmanuel and wished for Castiel to stay that way even if i believed that he did need to do what he did to redeem himself for betraying the brothers. But that is a testament to how well he has been written.
I myself didn't understand Meg's role and i also hope the writers explain more about Lucifer and why he could be transferred to Castiel.