Anger != Hate

[dangerpudding]

I've been seeing two words used in a way that is a lot closer to interchangeable than they actually are. I think this is a pretty huge problem, because it's leading to a wide-spread disagreement among people who are essentially on the same side of a problem

Comments

[dixiemouse]

Personally, I have always felt taht hate and love actually more connected... you have to have the emotional tie (love) and the pain (anger) to create the hate... if one is able to sever the emotional part of it, then you are left with just the anger, until that is resolved, through whatever means...

Not exactly on topic... but it's what popped into my head as reading (especially the beginning)...

[elgecko]

My own feeling is that the expression of anger, like swearing, dilutes the effectiveness of each expression. If I express anger all the time (or close to it), I risk becoming identified as "an angry person" and my expressions of anger lose their effect and weight.

Picture Dennis Leary getting really angry over something done to him. Now picture Ghandi in the same way. Ghandi expressing anger would carry a LOT more weight.

Note that I'm drawing a distinction between feeling anger and expressing anger to other persons.

[elgecko]

It's not dismissive at all. I just have different goals in mind for my own interactions.

When I interact with an adversary, I want to persuade them to my point of view. Expressions of anger used indiscriminately rarely do that. Anger focussed into useful action does do that.

A good example of this is that when you initiate your reply to me with "You are missing a lot of the point. And you are doing so in a very dismissive way," you make it very difficult for me to develop any desire to receive the rest of your message. Were you to initiate with an open statement that doesn't point a finger, it would prompt me to be more open to being persuaded. So you know, I did make the effort and did receive the rest of your message.

[angelbob]

when you initiate your reply to me with "You are missing a lot of the point. And you are doing so in a very dismissive way," you make it very difficult for me to develop any desire to receive the rest of your message. Were you to initiate with an open statement that doesn't point a finger, it would prompt me to be more open to being persuaded

So you feel that objections to injustice are fine, as long as they're done in a sufficiently ingratiating way, designed to fellate the ego of the listener?

[dawnd]

(nod) yup.

[brian1789]

Well, FWIW I believe that klwalton *does* actually hate me personally, based on years of interactions with her. And her anger is pretty scary too, and I'm pretty conflict-averse in in-person social spaces, so have tended to give those who are sometimes loud and angry... a wider berth.

That said, I understand and agree with being angry and motivated for a cause, or to redress a wrong, and I'm pissed off at the Maine outcome and others like it...

[dangerpudding]

I'm not saying one is always there without the other, but... they aren't the same thing. And, um, this feels a lot like you airing dirty laundry in public space?

But, yes, I think you get my general point. Thanks.

[brian1789]

Not really dirty laundry IMO... since you quoted her directly, I thought it was in-scope to bring up how I felt about my interactions with her... in some sense, how her anger has been perceived by this one individual. One data point. And if I perceive her expressed anger as hate, others may well have done likewise, which is the "*thing*" she mentions.

So in a sense, I'm corroborating what she said. (nods)

[dangerpudding]

I disagree with you that this was in scope. I think this was making a general discussion personal in a way that is likely to upset numerous people around it. Not ok.

It's like saying that when having a discussion about President Clinton's foreign policy, it's ok to bring up his love of *cough* cigars. That's not ok, that's derailing.

[mysterix]

I think of anger in these terms...a (decent) parent may get very, very angry with their child for lying, misbehaving, getting in legal trouble, hitting a playmate, cheating on a test, starting to smoke/drink/drug, etc. That same parent would never hate their child for all the money on earth

[dangerpudding]

Thank you for this response. You make some great points (and I've had others mention that to me as well) in a very useful way. :)