Serious Question: YHWH and The Holocaust

[derekcfpegritz]

All of my recent research into the Holocaust has...well, it's made me question a lot of things. About the unimaginable stupidity of humanity, and the utter brutality that can and will emerge from anyone at even the slightest provocation. But in all my readings, there is one question that I've never really seen asked, or answered.

If anyone reading

Comments

[dj_lollidrop]

Oh man, I have The Nazi Doctors...what a horrifying read that is. It actually inspired one of my stories several years ago.

I wonder the same thing about the whole God issue. It would make him pretty much the biggest, most psychotic asshole ever.

[rapier1]

God's not a boyfriend though.

A lot of people who were brought up in the Christian tradition have this idea that God is nothing but love. That God only wants light and sunshine for his chilluns. etc etc etc... which is sort of cereal box theology and, unfortunately, the extent of most people's education.

[clownfishdesign]

This is something that has been, unsurprisingly, discussed at some length in Jewish theological circles. Responses range from the fairly logical observation that there is no God, through various theological contortions. Possibly the most bizarre response I've heard of is that of Menachem Mendel Schneerson, who argues that the Shoah* proves that we must believe in God, because the Shoah was the work of the Godless. This conveniently ignores the fact that Hitler himself openly asserted his Catholocism.

In a nutshell, though, theologians seem to have shrugged and asked, "Why us, Lord?".

*I understand that many Jews prefer the term "Shoah", meaning "catastrophe/calamity/destruction", or "Ha-Shoah" ("The Catastrophe") as opposed to "Holocaust", which is Greek for "burnt offerings", and hence has an implied meaning of sacrificial offerings, which was often used Biblically to describe the destruction of large numbers of people, usually as Divine punishment.

I can see why Jews might have a problem with that.

[martygreene]

Correct. Us heebs tend to use Shoah.

[clownfishdesign]

Is my reasoning correct, or is that just goy bullshit? ;)

[martygreene]

Depends on who you ask. For some it's that, and for some it's just to have a heebie way of saying it rather than the goyishe verbiage. We've got crazy alternate words for just about everything if you think about it.

[martygreene]

Can you unlock this post so that other heeb friends of mine can weigh in on this?

[derekcfpegritz]

Absolutely! And, for that matter, Shoah is actually the term I've come to prefer, as well, since "holocaust" is generally too connected to the word "nuclear" (to which it is more apropos) in my vocabulary...however, most of the books I've been reading use the term "Holocaust" simply because it's the one most people are familiar with.

[anonymous]

In general, a Judeo-Christian response to most human-committed atrocities is that we have free will. Although the God of the Old Testament/Torah has occasionally stepped in, he has never stopped every horrible thing we do to each other. When you ask "why not?," convenient answers include "he's testing you" (like Job) or "we brought it upon ourselves" because of original sin or whatever (he's never been discriminate about getting what you personally deserve in this life, look at all those Egyptian babies he wiped out).

There are really a lot of justifications. Ultimately, our suffering in this life shouldn't matter anyway, because no matter how bad it is it is transitory and you're looking forward to an eternity of paradise.

[beeporama]

stupid LiveJournal, stupid Weave, losing my login cookies

[derekcfpegritz]

I've always found the "Well, life sucks on Earth, but it'll get better later!" argument to be stunningly stupid.

Now, as Chris Rapier pointed out, the whole "god is all good" conception that so many people seem to have is, indeed, "cereal-box" religion: shallow, misconstrued, and completely different from how god is consistently portrayed in all scriptures. However, god is portrayed in Western scriptures as just--supposedly. So...what's so just about letting your followers suffer miserable lives in this earthly hell just so you can reward them after they're dead?

If I find that there's some god waiting to judge me on the Other Side when I finally croak, the first thing I'm going to do is ask him/her/it what's so just about the September 11 attack, the Holocaust, and the Inquisition.

[rapier1]

Justice is in terms of the Law. If you break part of the Law then you suffer the consequences. However, not breaking the Law doesn't mean you won't suffer from something. The question is if suffering serves some purpose to a transcendental all powerful deity that can make any sort of sense to a human. I personally don't think its possible to actually answer the question.

[absurdkarma]

I've studied the Holocaust at great length, mostly by way of a course at Pitt, "History of the Holocaust". My eyes were opened to even more horrific shit that went on before, during and after the war. I have several books from that course that may be of interest to you.

On a personal note, my grandmother's entire family (except for her Mom) was sent to Chelmno where they were slaughtered. Were they Jewish? Nope. They were just very poor and worked as servants in the home of a Jewish governor in a small town in Poland. My gram and great-gram escaped 3 months before the Nazis destroyed their town in 1939. Before I die, I'd like to visit Chelmno and pay my respects