a repost so this can be public.

[dubonnetcherry]

If You Need To Make A Tiny Cry To Feel Superior
You Are The Problem
In Defense Of Mary Sue: She's Not The Enemy

trigger warnings: misogyny, internalized misogyny, poke me if I missed something.

I'm going to assume that I don't actually need to define Mary Sue for you, and arguably it's a tough thing to clearly define for anyone at this point in

Comments

[dubonnetcherry]

YOU ARE WELCOME. I have a lot of feelings, as you can see, and I've been thinking about writing this for a couple days- I don't know, I wasn't sure if I could pull it together, I'm glad I did.

wrong journal idec

[spirithelper]

THIS!

x 9000

yeah. i went there.

I realised it was a lot less about bad writing and a lot more about directing misogyny to tiny girls a while ago. THERE IS SHIT THAT GETS PUBLISHED, FFS. Let them have their moment.

[dubonnetcherry]

It is so frustrating I cannot deal.

[dalmasca]

Aaaah linked over here from Tara whooo I don't think keeps an LJ and I can't recall the DW of off the top of my hand.

This is a good post :)b

I think there's something offensive about the sometimes-brutal derision here - especially when I think about how so many of the same traits being criticized and mocked are, as I've noted elsewhere, often what makes our Great White (Male) Heroes so goshdarn popular.

That section is probably the bit that stuck with me the most though.

[dubonnetcherry]

TARA IS MY BABY it's cool, I know who you mean. HELLO, FRIEND-OF-A-FRIEND.

That's something I have a lot of frustration with - in general media, as well, because it's the kind of thing I noticed in, say, Who fandom lately with a lot of the criticisms I saw levelled at River Song vs the Doctor himself. I kind of just had that "oh, I see" moment, I guess, and I think it's true here as well. I think it's especially true here, since it's uppity little girls thinking they can be just as cool as men!!

[karihan]

I love this whole post, but yeah. Cis-white-male author or character does it and gets lauded to the skies. Anyone else who does the exact same thing gets pilloried.

So. Frustrating.

[dubonnetcherry]

Yeah- there was some misunderstanding so I am going to note it here as well, my post is definitely less about the writing than it is about the response to that writing and what that response means about the authors and, you know, the responders. That's the problem that I'm trying to address and I'm glad people have appreciated it.

[arcadiasilver]

Thank you for enumerating the biggest problems I have with fandom in general. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who sees a ton of internalized misogyny in fan groups.

[dubonnetcherry]

You're welcome! I didn't really expect this post to go further than just my friends, so I'm honestly glad to know IT'S NOT JUST ME as well. There's something really unpleasant about how normalized this seems to be.

[arcadiasilver]

And in truth, its a continuing cycle isnt it? Not only to Sue Writers write what they do because of escapism and fantasy, but often because they find dissatisfaction with the female characters presented to them, often because of their own internalize misogyny (honestly, its like no female character is ever going to be good enough for some fans) or the painfully stereotypical way female characters are presented.

I find it telling that most of the Sue tropes have the female as a martial, intellectual equal to the male leads or their superior, or reversing the harem dynamic. Interesting.

[dubonnetcherry]

It's a reaction to even just the dearth of female characters in a lot of canons - someone else remarked on how so many of these fantasies are coming back to "but what if there were MORE GIRLS" and I can't knock that, I really can't. I still have that exact same frustration and that's still why I personally like to make up my own, too. We want somebody to relate to. I don't think it's a bad thing to make the person you want to relate to super rad.

[cheezdanish]

And Hips just went "DAS RITE, BITCHES."

[dubonnetcherry]

Can't argue with the facts.