The most recent Christmas special was set in WW2 too.
Anyway, yeah, I mostly agree with these thoughts. Except I think Jack becomes interesting in CoE! CoE Jack is my favorite Jack.
The storyline with Nancy, too, is something else that might make me raise some eyebrows retrospectively, but taken alone is pretty interesting I think and I found Nancy fairly likable. I definitely agree with this. When it first aired, on it's own, it's a fine storyline. But in the contest of the most recent Christmas special, I am a lot less impressed. I mean, Nancy has some good lines and the way she takes care of the children is admirable and all that. But in terms of function in the story, Nancy basically saves the day just by virtue of being a mother. Like she doesn't actually DO anything. She just is Jamie's mother and thus her DNA saves the day. On it's own, it's not all that bothersome, but in conjunction with how Madge saved the day in the Christmas special, it's a little bit "hmmm..." to me.
Yeah, basically. I think that applies to a lot of this two-parter for me actually. There's a few things here that make me twitch now in ways they wouldn't have made me twitch the first time. Also, my first viewing of these episode was disrupted -- I didn't have "TEC" so I skipped to "TDD" and only caught up on TEC way later -- and that may have prevented it from leaving the "OMG AMAZING" impression it left with so many other viewers.
Either way this is probably one of my most ~unpopular opinions~ in DW fandom lol.
Rose's OOCness is probably the thing that's soured me of these episodes the most, tbh. Like, I can ignore a lot of nonsense, but DO ROSE WRONG AND I START LOOKING FOR TROUBLE.
Probably the most notable thing about this episode is the fact that it's our introduction to Jack Harkness. What was your first impression of Jack here, and did your impression change? Looking back, do you think this is a good introduction to his character? Jack begins the episode as a con man and ends the episode willing to sacrifice himself for others. What did you think of his progression?Jack is a character that I really don't care that much about, TBH. So I don't have many complicated thoughts on him. I thought he was kind of amusing in this episode back when I watched it for the first time. I mean this is the beginning of Jack fighting for something, I guess? Pre-Doctor, Jack was a man who just looked out for himself and didn't really have a cause, but now he's become someone who believes in things and fights for them, I guess? And then Torchwood happens, idk idk. I care very little about Torchwood. He does remain a somewhat morally grey character though because he makes difficult decisions, like in Children of Earth when he
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I was actually less than impressed with Jack the first time I saw this episode. By the time I got to this episode, I'd heard so much hype about him, that the reality disappointed me a bit. He definitely grew on me though, by the time he came back in Utopia.
What makes this one of my all-time favorite episodes is all the wonderful flirting between the Doctor and Rose. Dancing, and "dancing."
OH, and also, how happy the Doctor was when "Everybody lives!" I'd never seen him so happy and I loved it.
As for Nancy: those who feel let down because she saved the day merely by being Jamie's mother are missing the point, I think. I don't know if young viewers these days can fathom quite what an enormous stigma it was back then to have a child out of wedlock. It was something you had to hide and lie about, because you would be judged and condemned so harshly that your life could literally be ruined. Thus it wasn't Nancy's DNA that saved the world, it was her having the courage to stand up and admit the truth.
That's what I always got out of it and that is a good part of what makes that final scene with her and Jamie so powerful for me. Plus, Nancy is just such an amazing character. I just rewatched this the other day and found myself still so in love with her. <3 <3
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Anyway, yeah, I mostly agree with these thoughts. Except I think Jack becomes interesting in CoE! CoE Jack is my favorite Jack.
The storyline with Nancy, too, is something else that might make me raise some eyebrows retrospectively, but taken alone is pretty interesting I think and I found Nancy fairly likable.
I definitely agree with this. When it first aired, on it's own, it's a fine storyline. But in the contest of the most recent Christmas special, I am a lot less impressed. I mean, Nancy has some good lines and the way she takes care of the children is admirable and all that. But in terms of function in the story, Nancy basically saves the day just by virtue of being a mother. Like she doesn't actually DO anything. She just is Jamie's mother and thus her DNA saves the day. On it's own, it's not all that bothersome, but in conjunction with how Madge saved the day in the Christmas special, it's a little bit "hmmm..." to me.
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Yeah, basically. I think that applies to a lot of this two-parter for me actually. There's a few things here that make me twitch now in ways they wouldn't have made me twitch the first time. Also, my first viewing of these episode was disrupted -- I didn't have "TEC" so I skipped to "TDD" and only caught up on TEC way later -- and that may have prevented it from leaving the "OMG AMAZING" impression it left with so many other viewers.
Either way this is probably one of my most ~unpopular opinions~ in DW fandom lol.
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What makes this one of my all-time favorite episodes is all the wonderful flirting between the Doctor and Rose. Dancing, and "dancing."
OH, and also, how happy the Doctor was when "Everybody lives!" I'd never seen him so happy and I loved it.
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I agree.
Nancy was totally badass. One of my favourite one-off characters.
Edit: it's probably also good to remember that she had Jamie when she was *fifteen*.
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That's what I always got out of it and that is a good part of what makes that final scene with her and Jamie so powerful for me. Plus, Nancy is just such an amazing character. I just rewatched this the other day and found myself still so in love with her. <3 <3
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