Some initial thoughts on S5...

[ginzai]

So, the season five. I don't normally do episode reaction posts, preferring to get my squee on in meta-post comments, but these two episodes have quite pleased me and I want to jot out a few thoughts. I thought both of them were generally tightly plotted, brilliantly acted, and that the cinematography (particularly in 5x01) was just delightful

Comments

[thandie]

Wow, I agree with everything you said. And let's be partners in crime about your first point: you hate Bobby, *I* hate Ellen. She's maybe the character I can't stand the most, and it's pretty odd I know...I'm trying to understand why.

ETA: I was thinking the same about the amulet thing. IMO it could be that Cas needs something that belongs to the righteous man as an amulet, or maybe something that links the two men that broke first and last seal...and you know, it's possible that the amulet isn't ready, that Cas maybe needs to to something to it before it can be used that way.
Or maybe Bobby knew something?

I think they'll explain this more though, next ep will star Cas and Dean together, so I bet there's going to be some briefing :)

[ginzai]

Aw, I love Ellen. The only issue I had with her was seeming to put the sins of the father onto the sons in regards to Bill's death, but that only ever became a problem when she was trying to squelsh Jo's crush on Dean. My pet theory anyway is that Ellen and John DID have a fling back in the day and that Jo is probably a result of that and that was why Ellen was giving Dean and Jo so many odd looks and was so disapproving in general.

As for the amulet, I don't think that Bobby knew because his initial response when Castiel said what he was looking for was "well, we don't have anything like that." I like the idea though that the amulet is important because of Sam and Dean, rather than being important in its own right. I'd have actually loved that concept too, had we had any major foreshadowing about it. As it is, the only "special power" the amulet might have shown is possession prevention because people have theorized for a while now about Dean alone having never been possessed

[sethra2000]

I think the whole Dean not being possessed thing is because he is a "vessel", and they cannot be possessed without their express permission. Otherwise Michael could have just come on down and done the deed. Also Cas had to get Jimmy's permission and even Lucifer needed to get his vessel's permission. At least that's my theory on it.

[ginzai]

I'd agree with you except that Sam didn't give permission when he was possessed by Meg in S2 (as far as we know, anyway, but I'm pretty sure the writers would have brought a point as important as that up because it would have been severely OOC for him to agree) and he's just as vessel worthy a candidate as Dean is since they share the same parentage and bloodline. The permission issue seems to be a limitation of the angels, not a power of the vessels. IMHO, it's not that Dean has the innate power to withhold consent, it's that the angels themselves require it

[tahirire]

I mostly agree, like, 99%, and where I don't will probably be covered in my review, so I'll just say YAY SHOW! \o/ And leave it at that. ;)

(except your cut texts spoil the entire episode - you may want to fix that before you get people in here ranting about how they haven't seen it yet.)

♥

[ginzai]

*g* Now I'm really wanting to know what you disagreed with!

Ack, I see your point. I crossposted this to a couple of different communities and I've slapped both of those under LJ cuts and changed took out the reference to the separation from the last cut. Other than that, I don't think they're too bad - there's nothing mentioned that's a spoiler for 5x02 that wasn't a major focus of 5x01 except for Dean's amulet and, well, that's vague enough that I'm not sure what I could change it to that would be better. Thanks for pointing that out! Hopefully I can avoid spoiling people accidentally now. :)

[tahirire]

Lol, no problem, I've just seen what it looks like when people get jumped on and I'd rather not see it happen to anyone I know. ;)

[ginzai]

And I thank you for it! I'll be looking forward to your review as well, for that matter. :)

[afortunatefew]

This is a great post and you bring up some very interesting points

[ginzai]

Sam's addiction:

See, I think it would have been better had both aspects been covered but I understand the limitation in regards to timing. So it does feel like a cop out to me, but almost a necessary one

[afortunatefew]

I agree that it would have been better to explore both aspects of Sam's addiction and whenever i thought about Season 5 prior to the premiere i did always picture that there would be some sort of Panic Room type situation again. But as you say, it's probably due to time and other practical factors that this can't happen.

What I want for Sam is for him to look into his darkest places and recognize that it's all him, all human.
Yes. ITA. I think he is finally realising that although there were outside influences (Ruby, Azazel whatever) ultimately HE did make all these decisions. I mean, i don't ever like admitting Ruby was right (:p) but when she said in the finale that she didn't make him do anything, that's completely correct really. She just gave him the choice and he chose right (or wrong as the case actually was) every time. And Sam needs to deal with why that was, take responsibility for it and deal.

Yup! Dean looked totally apologetic <333 That was my primary thought too, that Sam just didn't feel ballsy enough to make a

[sistermagpie]

This was awesome to read! And even stuff I hadn't much thought of, like Bobby, I agree with. And also Ellen. I definitely think Dean's confusion with her as a mother figure makes a big difference. It's very easy for him to see Bobby as a mouthpiece for his father or just slip into that mode with him. Not so with Ellen--which I think Mary would like.

but everything else too. I don't get people seeing him giving the amulet to Castiel as saying S/D doesn't matter at all. That seems a superifical of just overly shippy way of reading it. He has to trust Castiel, and this was showing that. He has to trust both Castiel and Sam with things that in the past he would have wanted to hold on to, so he gives Cas the amulet temporarily and offers Sam the Impala--proving that he has complete faith that Sam will come back.

[ginzai]

I agree about Bobby and Ellen. It makes sense to me that Dean would more easily be able to see Bobby as a father figure than Ellen as a mother figure since Dean at least has experience with fathers. He's had very little contact with maternal women, that we can see and of that, remarkably little of it has been positive. The only other major maternal figure that I can think of was Missouri, who talked about him as a kid but was generally abrasive towards him and almost insulting

[berne]

It's really interesting that you didn't think Dean reacted enough to the amulet being taken from him. I thought the exact opposite, and the whole scene made me ache. *g*

I agree with the rest though, epecially about Bobby becoming too much of a John replacement. I used to like the man, but we've been hit over the head with the daddy!Bobby thing SO MANY TIMES. Enough!

[ginzai]

I think he reacted to the amulet itself being taken, but not to the fact that the amulet could apparently find God. I'd have expected some sort of shock or statement of disbelief at that. *g*

Outside of that though, it was an extremely powerful scene!

Oh man, down with daddy!Bobby!! I feel like we've been beaten over the head with it in the past two seasons and I'm so DONE with the whole idea. Dean already has enough father figures and mentors - he doesn't need Bobby in that role as well! I liked it when it was more subtle; Bobby coming when Sam and Dean called him in Tall Tales made a rather striking contrast to John's habit of ignoring them even when they were dying. Or Bobby going on a bender after Dean's death. Those said a lot about how Bobby felt about the boys without mucking the waters and turning it into a daddy issues thing. There are enough daddy issues on Supernatural, can't we keep Bobby out of it?

Argh.

[berne]

Oh, I see! I agree with pretty much everything, then. *g*