unlocked, to promote discussion

[glockgal]

BINDI?
DISCLAIMER: I'm using 'Wolverine and the X-Men' as an example. I'm not offended by the cartoon, I just laugh at the story/characterization of the X-Men. My personal opinion, which doesn't affect this discussion and doesn't judge your enjoyment of the cartoon. (in short: I like tons of stuff others laugh at; but I know you don't judge me for

Comments

[bossymarmalade]

*sniff* Oh, Bart! You really do listen!

(I have all my Bart & Lisa icons at home instead of uploaded, dammit!)

[glockgal]

YOU AREN'T CONTRIBUTING TO MY IMPORTANT DISCUSSION OF MASSIVE IMPORTANCE. D:<

However, Bart&Lisa icons - me wantee!!

[bossymarmalade]

ahahaah! It's actually too thoughtful a question for me to dash off a quick answer to, so I had to think about it.

I think the obvious cultural markers are a midway point; they're a step above chromatic characters appearing only as villains, third-world victims, or not at all. But they're also Othered in the way that you mention, because along with that cultural marker come the other stereotypes (Indian scientists! Superstitious "African" villagers!) and only the main characters -- if they include CoC among them -- are allowed to be more than the one-note Ethnic Background.

So I think it's not necessarily bad -- "vaguely delightful" is right, because I'm happy just to be represented -- but there's plenty of room for improvement, because being happy to follow a white person around with an umbrella is really not good enough.

[pandoras_closet]

Unfortunutly, that's the rub with cartoons. If they don't do the cultural things, a lot of people will cry bias and "whitewashing". This way, they can cover themselves and claim they're showing other cultures.

As for the german thing, its important in cartooning, and even more in animation to show, not tell. There's something undeniably German about lederhosen.

And I liked Wolverine and the X-men.

[glockgal]

Awww, no offense to people who like Wolverine and the X-Men! I was using it as an example, not the standard. I personally find it laughable, but then I like other things that other people would find laughable.

Maybe I need to disclaimer this post.

[glockgal]

Oh also (so as not to derail myself, LOL) - I don't think cartoons are necessarily forced to do anything to avoid white-washing; in fact, as recent happenings suggest, white-washing is pretty darn prevalent in the TV and movie industry.

Cartoons cater to the norm and the norm generally says 'well that's the way it has to be'. I don't think it has to be, which is why I'm bringing it up. Essentially, I don't feel that white-washing can only be prevented by assigning racial stereotypes. There IS a balance and it is starting to happen, and I don't mind pointing out things to push it that much further for the better.

[pandoras_closet]

Call me a cynic, then.

There is a more than willing vocal segment of people who are all too willing to point fingers and scream "racisim" at the slightest provocation, real or imagined.

Cartoonmakers have no choice BUT to cover their asses.

[parsimonia]

Last question - if I win the lottery, should I commit myself to the research and investigation of race and racial shortcuts in cartoons?

Yes!

It's been a while since I watched an X-Men cartoon, so I'll have to keep an eye out for that next time I do. But oddly, what always stuck in my mind was how whenever there was a scene/episode in Canada, it always seemed to take place in the northern rural woods of Alberta, with like, log cabins, and the women almost always had red hair and glasses. What is with that stereotype?
I've also noticed that the majority of depictions of Canadians in American shows, everyone is white. Always. Very strange.

[glockgal]

YOU JUST WANT FIVE DOLLARS, DON'T YOU. *HEEEEE*

AHAAHAH well, from the vantage point of my igloo home, I'd say snowy backdrops is what Canada is all about!

I've also noticed that the majority of depictions of Canadians in American shows, everyone is white. Always. Very strange.

Now this is something I hadn't picked up on! Very strange, very interesting. HMMMMM. Must make a note to notice these things more.

[bossymarmalade]

WHY WON'T THAT FUCKING AD CAMPAIGN DIE ALREADY

[dramedy]

umn, if you win the lotto, the FIRST thing you should do is fly me to Vancouver, lol. uh, then you can do the other stuff.

Yeah, I'm not really sure why all Indian women in cartoons wear a bindi. it doesn't really make sense, because not all do. It's like in order to have a PoC they have to be a parody of some culture or distinctly one culture. I can't think of any cartoons that have different cultures without that and none come to mind.

It's like, in order to make people feel comfortable dealing with other cultures, we have to show that they are ridiculous (in comparison to our own, naturally wonderful culture, obvs), or go to the extreme ends of the spectrum.

And that ain't right!!

[glockgal]

if you win the lotto, the FIRST thing you should do is fly me to Vancouver, lol. uh, then you can do the other stuff.

*SMACKS FOREHEAD* DUH, OF COURSE. How could I have been so forgetful?? XD

It's like, in order to make people feel comfortable dealing with other cultures, we have to show that they are ridiculous (in comparison to our own, naturally wonderful culture, obvs), or go to the extreme ends of the spectrum.Sometimes yes - it can get pretty ridiculous (again, in the Wolverine cartoon when they introduce Ororo because apparently she made 'Africa burn'. Africa, as in the ENTIRE CONTINENT. FOFL. WTF) but for the most part I think it's extreme ends, like. Which can get frustrating - it's not as if there are American white!NPCs who need to identify as their ancestors are from France so therefore they're wearing a beret - why not just eliminate the cultural indicator, especially if it has nothing to do with the plot

[fer_de_lance]

As someone who used to watch a LOT of cartoons, back when her age was in the single digits, I like to think that if you stuck a character of any colour in a black-and-white-horizontally-striped shirt and beret and gave them a cigarette (and possibly a swirly mustache), I'd have "known" they were French; however, I can't recall offhand whether I ever saw a nonwhite "French" character

[auntbijou]

Actually, even if you don't win the lottery, I think you should do a study on race and racial shortcuts in cartoons. It has value in and of itself!

As to your questions, I don't know. Really, I do believe the Powers That Be continually short-change an audience's intelligence, choosing to play to the lowest common denominator. We're apparently too stupid to tell the difference between various ethnic groups. After all, all these ethnic people look alike, so, they're interchangeable, what? So you have Jason Lee playing a Chinese man in one movie, an Inuit in another, voicing a native Hawaiian in Lilo and Stitch, and you have Pat Morita playing a Chinese flunky in Thoroughly Modern Millie and a Japanese gardener/martial arts whiz in the Karate Kid franchise

[glockgal]

It would be really cool to analyse! I just have two things working against me. One: I'd need money to pay for a Masters; Two: I hate school, AHAHAAHAHAH. If only one of those things could be helped, then I'd totally forego the other and actually make a study of it LOLOL